Samsung HD204UI/Z4 2tb drive failure?

[Shaolin_K]

Yes, I've tried 2 other SATA ports and used the same ones for my other drives.

It's the culmination of :

1. the drive not passing the manufacturer's full test
2. the increasing WRITE errors (which apparently indicates problems with the disk's surface and/or read/write heads

I don't see your F4 2TB having any write errors. I would have been more comfortable IF my other drives showed increasing write error rates - but none of them do.

Do others have any opinions?

Are you suggesting there's nothing for me to be concerned about?

[vimes]

I have just changed my drive to one of the two purple SATA ports on the my Gigabyte motherboard, a different controller.

Now it has passed the RAM test three times in a row whereas before it would fail each and every time.

To be frank with you I'm not too sure what to believe in the validity of interpreting these SMART information statistics when testing hard drives.

Have you contacted Samsung to ask their opinion...?

http://www.samsung.com/uk/info/contactus.html

If, for example, there is a problem with their EStool and this particular drive in certain configurations then that would explain why their diagnostic tool reported as it has. They might also explain that the errors you are seeing being reported are not errors at all..?

The above I'm guessing but I remember talking to Seagate after running HD Tune Pro and the same Sentinel program that you did on my Seagate drive as I was quite concerned. But it has passed their own extended tests and been fine for me the last two years with absolutely no errors.

I am going to give Samsung a ring tomorrow and talk with them about the "AJ41" report and whether it is an issue or not. Also I will chat with them about the 1 "raw read error" and its validity.

EDIT:

I am also reminded that I see this...



what does your show on that page..?

[Shaolin_K]

I've just checked all my Samsung drives - none of them report any read or write errors. It is the write errors I'm concerned about, as they've increased over the week of testing with data copied onto. Fair enough, I've not written any data onto my other Samsung drives on the PC the F4 showed errors, BUT I have copied data onto my other Samsung 2tb HD203WI on the SAME SATA port. No errors were exhibited. I guess this also eliminates problems with the SATA port (bearing in mind I've already tried couple of other ports before leaving the cable where it is at the moment).

It sounds like you've just performed three quick tests to pass the RAM verify test in ESTOOL. My F4 would also pass the quick test till the cows come home. IT IS IMPORTANT to highlight that the RAM verify test reports the error service code AJ41 after the LONG read surface scan.

The FULL diagnositc test takes around 6 hours and 15 mins to complete.

Regarding your Seagate, it DID pass the manufacturer's own diag tool, but showed errors in SMART utilities and have had no problems. Difference is - my F4 DID NOT pass the manufacturer's own extended tests, hence I investigated further. My Seagate 320gb (from Scan a good few years ago) also passed Seagate's own diagnostics. I took that at face value and only now I've noticed a high number of RAW read errors but NIL write errors (which is my main concern). Maybe this is normal for Seagates? However, I can't say this is normal for Samsungs.

Also, bear in mind that my F3 2TB passed Samsung's Full diagnostics (ESTools 3.01p) and does not exhibit any write errors with data written onto the drive over time.

I'm sure if there is indeed a problem with their current ESTools program with the F4, I would have seen a lot of worried reports generated by Google after the first full run (the first test completed a few minutes before I started this thread). Surely I'm not the only one who runs a full manufacturer's diag program on a new drive? The same would also apply if others have encountered read/write errors that they would also express their concerns, because as I've mentioned, all my drives shows 0 write errors.

[vimes]

Unlike you I never bothered to do the full Estool test, in terms of the surface scan, and mine would always fail the RAM test when it was done that way. Now it doesn't fail.

Like I said I will still contact Samsung to query the possible RAM error as I'm not convinced that just passing the "three in a row" means that the reported error has indeed been resolved. I am not happy about the 1 "raw read error" either.

Like I asked in my last post does HD Sentinel report the drive as being 100% Perfect, as mine does...?

From my media PC I have just replaced my 2TB WD "green" drive, it failed having bought it in June. Thankfully my local dealer just replaced it over the counter without even testing it. However it would not complete WD's own SMART test without throwing up errors. Unfortunately I lost a lot of data, but it can be replaced.

What does your graph look like when you run the benchmark within HD Tune Pro..? Mine is fairly spiked and not like my other drives which show a smooth declining curve. Other people I have noticed who report a problem with this drive have shown a very spiked graph.

Good luck and keep us posted on how things turn out.

EDIT: Scrap that...

I decided to run the diagnostics again. This time it passed the first one but failed the three following. It gives the impression that something is not right.

[Shaolin_K]

The disk is reported to be 'perfect' but this still does not instill any confidence in me to continue to use the drive long term. In the past, if it passed the manufacturer's full diagnostics, I was comfortable - as demonstrated with the current drives I have (no read & write errors, well at least with the Samsungs) - touch wood, they've not missed a beat.

In terms of the HD Tune graph, IIRC it didn't appear spikey and benchmarks appear in line with otrhers I've seen, but for a brand new drive, I don't think why I should use the drive consciously aware that it could fail with the disks surface or mechanically at any time or within a couple of months.

The fact that it doesn't pass the extended ESTools diag (I've ran it 3 - 4 times), coupled with the constantly increasing write errors the more data is written onto the drive, I think I've no choice but to RMA the drive. As mentioned, I've performed various tests to avoid having to go through the hassle of an RMA process.

In at least the past 10 years of computer component purchases, this is only the second time I will be RMAing something back within the first couple of weeks of purchase - there's got to be very good reasons for me to surrender to the RMA process, having taking all reasonable steps to ensure the product is faulty.

[vimes]

I fully agree with your position.

When I phoned Western Digital they were most helpful and offered me an advanced replacement hard drive, although my local retail exchanged it for me over the counter. They took me through the diagnostics procedure and interpreted the error code produced to be a hardware fault with the drive.

I have just come off the phone with Samsung - what a very frustrating experience that was.!!! After giving the person all of my details they then told me that they offered no telephone support for the hard drives they sell and instead directed me to their website www.samsungodd.com (according to the first page on that site it is for Optical Disk Drives)
I asked them about the AJ41 error and to be frank I was completely wasting my time as they assured me that they cannot support me and the website they noted was my only source of assistance.

My drive is now removed and with a couple of screenshots printed off it will be returned today.

Thanks Samsung (not)..!

[Shaolin_K]

Hi Mark

I understand the package was received by Scan this afternoon around 13:30. Considering the delays in collection by DPD, do you think you're able to fast-track my RMA please?

I do however appreciate the full ESTools test will take around 6.25hrs to complete. I would also suggest some data is copied over (around 100gb?) to monitor the write error count increasing. The last count was 15 I think.

Thanks

[sammorris]

re: Samsung F4 errors, reading reviews, this seems really common short to mid-term with these drives.

[Shaolin_K]

re: Samsung F4 errors, reading reviews, this seems really common short to mid-term with these drives.

Are you saying I should accept a new drive prone to errors and risk data corruption with continued use? Would you settle for it if it was one of your newly puchased drives?

I think not.

[sammorris]

Nono, that's not what I was implying at all, rather just that it's a common problem with F4s, so it's not too unlikely that the replacement drive may do the same thing once it's, say, 6 months old.

[Shaolin_K]

oh ok - I think I'd rather have a drive not exhibiting any of the problems I've encountered from the get-go as I'd be more comfortable with that than being consciously aware that I'm using a drive which could corrupt data or fail within a few months (and kicking myself that I should have RMA'd it sooner).

[vimes]

I took my F4 back on the day noted above and it was exchanged for another one. However when I got home I then found errors after copying around 80GB over to the drive. I took it back on the same day and I now have a Western Digital 2TB drive which is running fine.

[Shaolin_K]

Despite my drive having been received by Scan on Wednesday afternoon, I still cannot see it logged when I enter my RMA number on Scan's tracker.

Come Monday 22nd, it'll be a month since I took delivery of the drive. Very disappointed.

I think I've been very patient.

[Shaolin_K]

Still not updated - could a Scan rep update the situation please?

[Shaolin_K]

Mark

I've been advised by Mick a few moments ago on the phone that the drive was tested and passed the full ESTool diag.

I cannot get the drive to pass the full test, despite my best efforts. Note I've also tested my other 2TB - HD203WI - which passed.

This detailed thread will explain how I have reluctantly came to my decision to RMA the drive - essntially errors shown in the SMART diagnostics of the freeware program HD Senitel. This will illustrate developing write errors with the drive.

Problem is, considering no drive serial # is shown with ESTools, how could Scan prove to me that the drive passed it's test - likewise, it is hard for me to prove the same.

As suggested previously, if you'd copied over ~100gb of data onto the drive, the drive will develop further WRITE errors. A timeline is also graphically illustrated.

Mick wants me to reply to an email to confirm a further £5 fee for a re-test? I have already outlined what problems were encountered and what steps should be taken to replicate the problem.

Where do we go from here?

[Shaolin_K]

Anyone at Scan's management or returns dept care to advise on the situation?

Mark - if you recall, I did specifically ask how exhaustive Scan's hard drive testing is, simply because I wanted to avoid this exact situation in incurring a no fault found fee. Running a simple test will result in passes as I've always maintained, but now I'm being told that it has passed it's overnight extended test.

I was offered 'proof' of it passing (printout/screenshot), but I think it's fair to say why should one accept it as it being the same drive being tested (as it does not show the drive's serial number - maybe Samsung should note [to incorporate the serial number on the results page] for future versions of ESTool!), likewise Scan not accepting it the other way around?

It's also easy to dismiss it as a system compatibility issue, but my system is solid and have no problems with my other drives. [Edit] I've tried different SATA ports on the (at least) three occasions I've ran the full diag test. This coupled with the fact I've used the same SATA cable with other drives successfully in my system eliminates those factors contributing towards the issue.

If Scan could demonstrate to me (using HD Senitel - with data written on and showing the SMART tab) that after copying over 100 - 200 gb of data the write error rate has not increased from 15 counts, I guess I'll have to put it down to a system issue.

I've been very hesitant in RMA'ing the drive, and very patient over the last 2.5 weeks [Edit] 4 weeks in total; first 1.5 weesk testing & deliberating if I absolutely had to RMA, the last 2.5 weeks were as a result of failed collections by DPD.

Hope you understand my position and frustration.