Opinion - GTA IV - is it really that good?

[Nick]

I’m probably opening myself up for some major criticism here but I just can’t shake the feeling that GTA IV just isn’t as good as everyone is saying...

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[kalniel]

You say that about most games Nick

[MadduckUK]

and beating off all the other underworld scum…

why on earth would you want to do that?! must me a sub game i haven't found yet

I must be seriously missing the point here but if I wanted to stroll around Liberty City then why bother having me be able to steal cars at all?

eh?

Yes, I know holding down a button is hardly a life ending chore

correct

but why not just have me run all the time as in the previous games?

because there's parts that require greater control to avoid falling off of stuff etc.

And now I’ve mentioned cars… And the cars in GTA 4 are pretty much the same. I dunno, maybe Americans like driving around in cars that have marshmallows for suspension

they do, yank tanks.. try the corolla-a-like or one of the supercars, much better

but how the hell are you supposed to get anywhere without a) understeering around every corner and b) not crashing into anything because you can’t bloody see where you’re going anyway?

a) break earlier for the corners b) use the view properly, when you take the time to learn it, it will let you see not only where your going, but where you want to be going and if anything is going to be in your way. you should be looking around constantly while driving, you do in real life.. right?

And speaking of non-action gripes, what’s with all this ‘dating’ stuff?

dont like it then dont do it, theres only a few times that you will have to do these for story progression..

But how stupid is it that you have to be pushing one joystick one way to turn the car and the other in the opposite direction just to see where you’re going?

not how it is on mine, camera looks in same direction stick is pushed.

First, I just can’t at all relate to Nico, the main character. He looks like that greasy Oasis drop-out chasing Owen Wilson in the film Behind Enemy Lines…and even alludes to the bad things he did in ‘the war’… and seeing as his accent places him from somewhere in the ex-Eastern Bloc, that would tie-in with Behind Enemy Lines too… and that Serbian sniper character, Sasha, was a thoroughly nasty piece of work. So, there’s not much to like about Nico and his plight of being with a lying cousin who told him he had a wonderful mansion, pots of money and girls dripping off each arm.

so a guy you can relate to, and then get to mow down innocents in his quest for money and revenge? perhaps a bit more background to him than what it gives in the first 10 mins of playing would help you understand the guys motivations.

will do for now

[Steven W]

Some good points there.

Pressing the A button to run is irritating, especially on certain missions.

Hand to Hand fighting is dreadful, I'm sure its the same mechanic they used in Bully.

I like the shoot-outs, although targeting could have been improved.

Some of the mini-games are rubbish - pool, bowling, darts.

I drive from 1st person mode and drive slower now, I can handle the driving, I know what cars to look out for, but annoyingly most of them still bounce up and down.

Despite this, I still love it. Could have been plenty done to improve it though.

[Raz316]

I basically agree with all of what Nick said.

I think it makes more sense to hold a button to walk (like counter strike). It's not as if the running is that fast anyway. With driving, it feels like they've opted for realism over fun. How about a toned down version of the burnout driving engine? : D I have to admit, a couple of the most recent missions I've played have been very good, but most of them are all a bit... meh.

I'm not getting the sense of working up a status either. I'm pretty sure it's intentional, but with Niko it seems to be about money and finding "that special someone" (OK WE GET IT!). Nothing he does seems to relate to this person, he just chases work for money and every now and then makes an irrelevant mention of said person. Also, again I'm sure it's intentional to try to create a much deeper character than any of the other GTA games, but the line about 'kids sitting upright outside a church' was cringe worthy.

Maybe it's because I'm not far enough yet, but it seems like they've worked harder on 'those little extras everyone loves about the series' and forgotten, to some extent the core part of the game.

[Salazaar]

First, I just can’t at all relate to Nico, the main character. He looks like that greasy Oasis drop-out chasing Owen Wilson in the film Behind Enemy Lines… and even alludes to the bad things he did in ‘the war’… and seeing as his accent places him from somewhere in the ex-Eastern Bloc, that would tie-in with Behind Enemy Lines too… and that Serbian sniper character, Sasha, was a thoroughly nasty piece of work. So, there’s not much to like about Nico and his plight of being with a lying cousin who told him he had a wonderful mansion, pots of money and girls dripping off each arm.

You do begin to empathise with Nico as the game progresses. Sure he's basically a violent thug, paid to end other people's lives but given that he's not actually that bad a chap. He's kind to his cousin and his friends and not violent or even very confrontational to anyone he's not being paid to hurt.

The next problem is that once again you’re faced with the challenge of building up a criminal empire and beating off all the other underworld scum… just like all the other GTA games before this one.

Let's face it more people would have complained if they'd changed it. How can you commit grand theft auto without being criminal scum ?

I wouldn’t mind so much if the camera and controls were any good but bugger me, how much harder can you make driving a car? Sure, there’s plenty of different camera views available but none of them are any use except perhaps the bonnet cam and even that gives you a limited front view.

Use any of the trailing cameras and often as not, you be driving around corners blind as the camera has a wonderful lag before it too turns the corner. Of course, you can manually position the camera, which will still eventually settle back to it’s default position. But how stupid is it that you have to be pushing one joystick one way to turn the car and the other in the opposite direction just to see where you’re going?

I agreed about the cameras at first, but you really do get used to it. It's almost become easy to shake off up to three star wanted levels just by driving around the city with the bonnet cam.

And now I’ve mentioned cars… oh dear lord. The last time I drove a car that wallowed around on its suspension as much as the cars in GTA, it was a 1978 Renault 5 TL… and going around a roundabout in one of them was scaring as hell… it leaned so much that I seriously considered fitting one of those trapeze things that sailors use to stop boats falling over. And the cars in GTA 4 are pretty much the same. I dunno, maybe Americans like driving around in cars that have marshmallows for suspension, but how the hell are you supposed to get anywhere without a) understeering around every corner and b) not crashing into anything because you can’t bloody see where you’re going anyway?

Again I agreed with you on this one at first until I got my hands on the sports cars and higher end saloons. If the basic cars weren't shoddy it wouldn't be worth putting the time and effort in to getting the better ones. (Although I do agree that even the best cars seem to roll like their suspension is made from elastic).

But when you do finally get wherever you need to, thanks to the handy built in Sat Nav which is a very handy bit of kit, you’re then faced having a fight… which is only marginally better than driving. Seriously, standing on the other side of the room and flicking the joypad with a fishing rod would hardly make any appreciable difference to the fight scenes… The first fisticuffs session has loads of pop-up tips about dodging punches and counter-attacking etc but to be honest, just mash the hell out of the Y button…

Lucky you only actually have to do it onece. It's what guns were made for.

And what is it with having to hold the A button to run? I’m sorry, I must be seriously missing the point here but if I wanted to stroll around Liberty City then why bother having me be able to steal cars at all? Yes, I know holding down a button is hardly a life ending chore, but why not just have me run all the time as in the previous games? I’m not a walker, I’m a busy bloke trying to build a criminal empire… this isn’t Grand Theft Ramble for crying out loud.

Agreed. Annoying.

And speaking of non-action gripes, what’s with all this ‘dating’ stuff? Or, to put a finer point on it, what’s with all this having to take people out for the evening and play games with them so they like you? Yes, I get the idea of it all. I understand that you have to have certain people like you to get missions from them and so on, but hang on a second. How does all this lovey-dovey stuff fit in with the bad-ass attitude from GTA? This is Grand Theft Auto… controversial, no-nonsense, city based exploration-action-driving-shooty-stuff… But at times it felt like The Sims.

Yeah, it's just one of those diversions though. Ignore it if you like cos it won't make any difference but it does add a touch of depth of character. Personally I'd miss it if it was gone.

So here’s the lowdown from someone who’s played GTA from its top-down 2D days and every incarnation since… GTA 4, whilst absolutely looking better than all the previous versions and having some handy tweaks, feels as if it’s lost its way somewhat. I suppose there’s only so much you can do in the building-a-criminal-empire genre of games and I’ve a feeling that the GTA series peaked with GTA: San Andreas and now, well, it’s all been done. As much as it pains me to say it, it feels like Rockstar are just tweaking for the sake of tweaking.

Even though not everthing works perfectly yet, I do feel that this is the most refined and polished GTA yet. It feels more like a real city than any they've done so far. (Even though I liked the 80s Vice City setting better).

Sure, GTA 4 may well be the fastest selling game of all time and it’ll be topping the charts the for ages and all that… but I’d be willing to bet that 99% of the people who buy it never get more than halfway through before moving onto something else.

Probably true. I've got a friend who just buys GTAs on the back of the hype and he's yet to play one for more than a few hours before getting bored. The freak.

[dave87]

Am I the only one who sees disappointment as being the inevitable result of the hype surrounding new releases now?

[TiG]

No Sins of the solar empire rules

TiG

[Parm]

I haven't even purchased GTA IV yet, but then, I wasn't overly fond of the other games in the series.

The watch a cut scene, drive somewhere, kill someone, watch a cut scene, drive somewhere, do something routine bored me in the previous games and I figured it'd be more of the same in this one.

That, coupled with my dislike of violence, has left me in no hurry to get the game. I do like my games though so I'm sure I'll pick it up at some stage and give it a whirl. Are there any plans for a demo on Live Marketplace?

[gtech]

I’ve spent the best part of this weekend playing my way through

Cant believe you stayed in all weekend playing games when it was soooooo sunny and hot.

Alright pasty boy.


Back to subject, i'm loving it, only played about 15 hours 20% in single player and played quite a bit of multiplayer with mates (lots of fun), havent played it enough for them gripes to get me.

[Salazaar]

Cant believe you stayed in all weekend playing games when it was soooooo sunny and hot.

It was? It rained all but saturday for me.

[MadduckUK]

Back to subject, i'm loving it, only played about 15 hours 20% in single player and played quite a bit of multiplayer with mates (lots of fun),

havent even touched the multiplayer yet. people are raving about it though so may have a look tonight

havent played it enough for them gripes to get me.

the "gripes" will get less evident as you get more into the game, not more. so i wouldnt worry



rained here pretty much all the time too, was quite warm tho

[gtech]

South East Coast - Sat, Sun,Mon very hot and sunny

[Blackmage]

for those who don't find the game very good, how far are you into it? I feel the game gets better as it goes along.

[Steven W]

for those who don't find the game very good, how far are you into it? I feel the game gets better as it goes along.

I'd agree with that.

[Platinum]

Agreed, its getting better and better for me, theres just no pleasing some people , This game is a great achievment and about the best they could do imo with the limitations of the console.