Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: News - Apple wins initial ITC ruling over HTC

  1. #1
    HEXUS.admin
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    31,709
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    2,073 times in 719 posts

    News - Apple wins initial ITC ruling over HTC

    A judge has determined that HTC smartphones infringe two Apple patents – could get messy.
    Read more.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    326
    Thanks
    20
    Thanked
    29 times in 24 posts

    Re: News - Apple wins initial ITC ruling over HTC

    "Of course intellectual property needs to be protected, but Android is clearly quite different to iOS and WP7, and it's a shame that it looks set to be a less viable mobile platform thanks to the legal efforts of Apple and Microsoft and Apple."

    Arguably not a typo - like you say, Apple is somewhat less keen to license, so twice as guilty?
    ;-)

  3. Received thanks from:

    Scott B (18-07-2011)

  4. #3
    Senior Member Hicks12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Plymouth-SouthWest
    Posts
    6,586
    Thanks
    1,070
    Thanked
    340 times in 293 posts
    • Hicks12's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P8Z68-V
      • CPU:
      • Intel i5 2500k@4ghz, cooled by EK Supreme HF
      • Memory:
      • 8GB Kingston hyperX ddr3 PC3-12800 1600mhz
      • Storage:
      • 64GB M4/128GB M4 / WD 640GB AAKS / 1TB Samsung F3
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Palit GTX460 @ 900Mhz Core
      • PSU:
      • 675W ThermalTake ThoughPower XT
      • Case:
      • Lian Li PC-A70 with modded top for 360mm rad
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 Professional 64bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell U2311H IPS
      • Internet:
      • 10mb/s cable from virgin media

    Re: News - Apple wins initial ITC ruling over HTC

    This is starting to get out of hand.... one of the key reasons i hate america! I wonder how many patents Apple has infringed, i bet its a crap loads cause apple hardly innovate and that is proven once again here.... its a patent from 1996, and now they are pulling it out of the grave because they are all out of ideas on how to stop competition.

    The fact is that as patents have to be so broad in their description it makes it extremely hard to not infringe even though the actual method is totally different but if you give a brief description on how you get to it it then sounds similar to a previous patent.

    I know MS is sometimes disliked but that is the reason i like them, yes they have a crap load of patents but atleast they LET people pay to use them, Apple seem to want to be the only phone manufacturer so i hope it makes a massive u turn and all of HTC patents win against apple.
    Quote Originally Posted by snootyjim View Post
    Trust me, go into any local club and shout "I've got dual Nehalem Xeons" and all of the girls will practically collapse on the spot at the thought of your e-penis

  5. #4
    Senior Member Scott B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    643
    Thanks
    151
    Thanked
    33 times in 33 posts

    Re: News - Apple wins initial ITC ruling over HTC

    Quote Originally Posted by Tpyo View Post
    "Of course intellectual property needs to be protected, but Android is clearly quite different to iOS and WP7, and it's a shame that it looks set to be a less viable mobile platform thanks to the legal efforts of Apple and Microsoft and Apple."

    Arguably not a typo - like you say, Apple is somewhat less keen to license, so twice as guilty?
    ;-)
    oops, thanks

  6. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    423
    Thanks
    63
    Thanked
    18 times in 17 posts
    • GaryRW's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte P35C DS3R
      • CPU:
      • Q6600 @ 3ghz
      • Memory:
      • DDR2 4gb
      • Storage:
      • Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • 8800GT
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX520w
      • Case:
      • Antec P182
      • Operating System:
      • Win 7
      • Monitor(s):
      • Samsung 2032BW

    Re: News - Apple wins initial ITC ruling over HTC

    I can't help thinking these issues would be better protected by copyright in the code that implements these ideas, rather than patenting the idea. *

    The patent system currently seems to be used these days to protect the functionality of an idea (often extremely vague ideas at that), rather than the implementation. For example, in terms of the multi-touch stuff, I think it is reasonable for Apple or anyone else to protect the exact implementation of using >1 point of contact. I can imagine they may have spent time researching ergonomics, what's easiest for the average Joe to remember, that sort of thing. However, even then, there are obvious finger pointing combinations that anyone trying to implement such a system would inevitably think about using (e.g. two fingers pointing together, two fingers pointing separated, etc...) More generally, I just can't see why the patent system be used to prevent anyone else from implementing any kind of multi-touch input system??

    And the example here is again what I think is basic functionality - recognising e.g. telephone numbers, email addresses etc... Surely that is obvious functionality if you think about it for at least a few minutes. I presume they haven't ripped off the code Apple used to implement the idea (I'm also guessing when the patent was granted, Apple didn't have any code).

    *I've not actually read the patents involved or really read up on individual cases, so I may have entirely mis-understood what is being argued about...

  7. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    263
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    9 times in 9 posts

    Re: News - Apple wins initial ITC ruling over HTC

    And the example here is again what I think is basic functionality - recognising e.g. telephone numbers, email addresses etc... Surely that is obvious functionality if you think about it for at least a few minutes. I presume they haven't ripped off the code Apple used to implement the idea (I'm also guessing when the patent was granted, Apple didn't have any code).
    These patents are usually only obvious after the fact. It has taken someone time, money and effort to develop them beforehand, so it's only right that that effort is protected.

  8. #7
    Oh Crumbs.... Biscuit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    N. Yorkshire
    Posts
    11,193
    Thanks
    1,394
    Thanked
    1,091 times in 833 posts
    • Biscuit's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI B450M Mortar
      • CPU:
      • AMD 2700X (Be Quiet! Dark Rock 3)
      • Memory:
      • 16GB Patriot Viper 2 @ 3466MHz
      • Storage:
      • 500GB WD Black
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire R9 290X Vapor-X
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic Focus Gold 750W
      • Case:
      • Lian Li PC-V359
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 x64
      • Internet:
      • BT Infinity 80/20

    Re: News - Apple wins initial ITC ruling over HTC

    Quote Originally Posted by mrochester View Post
    These patents are usually only obvious after the fact. It has taken someone time, money and effort to develop them beforehand, so it's only right that that effort is protected.
    Agreed, it seems to me that its not about that though, i dont know for sure but im pretty confident HTC/android didnt directly rip off whatever this patent is, they probably developed their own version of it, just so happens that it (not surprisingly) has some similarities with the version that apple have made.

    I dont think these law suites actually have much in the way of IP protection, its more strong arm tactics from wealthy companies trying to cut the feet off smaller developing companies so they can maintain dominance of the market. I will put money on the notion that apple have entire departments dedicated to the process of finding possible loop holes in patents that they can use to screw the competition. Quite frankly, its pure evil!

  9. Received thanks from:

    aidanjt (18-07-2011)

  10. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,555
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked
    56 times in 53 posts

    Re: News - Apple wins initial ITC ruling over HTC

    perhaps they will sue every fruit seller too for using the name apple and force us to rename the fruit...

  11. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    423
    Thanks
    63
    Thanked
    18 times in 17 posts
    • GaryRW's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte P35C DS3R
      • CPU:
      • Q6600 @ 3ghz
      • Memory:
      • DDR2 4gb
      • Storage:
      • Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • 8800GT
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX520w
      • Case:
      • Antec P182
      • Operating System:
      • Win 7
      • Monitor(s):
      • Samsung 2032BW

    Re: News - Apple wins initial ITC ruling over HTC

    Quote Originally Posted by mrochester View Post
    These patents are usually only obvious after the fact. It has taken someone time, money and effort to develop them beforehand, so it's only right that that effort is protected.
    I have no difficulty with protecting the effort, I just don't think that the patent system is the way to do it. I understood the policy reason for the patent system was to protect innovation, the argument being that if you didn't, no-one would devote the time and effort developing an idea. With these examples, I simply don't accept that is the case - the (global) competition is fierce enough that others are more than happy to spend time developing the same code.

    In the example here, if someone else develops entirely separate some code which achieves the same effect, they have also spent time and effort developing something (and presumably spent a similar amount of time). In my view, the original developer will have taken benefit from being first - presumably anything which took a lot of time and effort to implement will have taken a competitor time and effort too, during which time the original company will have reaped the benefits of being first to market. Again, I see ripping off the implementation as different and if someone actually took the code and re-used that, clearly that's entirely different.

    If we stick to the principle that ideas per se can be protected (separate from their implementation), then I would argue for a much shorter period of protection a couple of years at most, particularly with the pace of modern technology. To say that first to market can then exclude the competition for an entire generation (Human, not technological) seems wrong.

    I accept that drawing a line between idea and implementation could be difficult. Maybe the difficulty is the ease with which you can get US patents, and the apparent vagueness which is allowed. Fundamentally though, I agree with Biscuit and see the current system as a means of stiffling innovation and competition. It seems to have reached the stage where you can only play in the mobile game if you have a patent library that you can use to buy off this litigation by cross-licensing, even if you wrote an entire OS from scratch.

    (or final option then - enforced cross licensing )

  12. Received thanks from:

    aidanjt (18-07-2011)

  13. #10
    Moosing about! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Not here
    Posts
    32,039
    Thanks
    3,910
    Thanked
    5,224 times in 4,015 posts
    • CAT-THE-FIFTH's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Less E-PEEN
      • CPU:
      • Massive E-PEEN
      • Memory:
      • RGB E-PEEN
      • Storage:
      • Not in any order
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVEN BIGGER E-PEEN
      • PSU:
      • OVERSIZED
      • Case:
      • UNDERSIZED
      • Operating System:
      • DOS 6.22
      • Monitor(s):
      • NOT USUALLY ON....WHEN I POST
      • Internet:
      • FUNCTIONAL

    Re: News - Apple wins initial ITC ruling over HTC

    Apple has infringed two S3 patents ITC has also ruled:

    http://news.softpedia.com/news/Apple...s-209496.shtml

    HTC owns S3:

    http://www.htc.com/www/press.aspx?id=172438&lang=1033

  14. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    263
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    9 times in 9 posts

    Re: News - Apple wins initial ITC ruling over HTC

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    I can see some cross-licensing going on here.

  15. #12
    Gentoo Ricer
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Galway
    Posts
    11,048
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    944 times in 704 posts
    • aidanjt's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Strix Z370-G
      • CPU:
      • Intel i7-8700K
      • Memory:
      • 2x8GB Corsiar LPX 3000C15
      • Storage:
      • 500GB Samsung 960 EVO
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVGA GTX 970 SC ACX 2.0
      • PSU:
      • EVGA G3 750W
      • Case:
      • Fractal Design Define C Mini
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • Asus MG279Q
      • Internet:
      • 240mbps Virgin Cable

    Re: News - Apple wins initial ITC ruling over HTC

    The US patent system needs taken out the back and shot. What was once a layer of protection for small/hobbyist inventors has been corrupted by cronyism to the point that it's useless for the intended protectees and only serves as a stick for incumbents to beat down the small players with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    ...every time Creative bring out a new card range their advertising makes it sound like they have discovered a way to insert a thousand Chuck Norris super dwarfs in your ears...

  16. #13
    Oh Crumbs.... Biscuit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    N. Yorkshire
    Posts
    11,193
    Thanks
    1,394
    Thanked
    1,091 times in 833 posts
    • Biscuit's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI B450M Mortar
      • CPU:
      • AMD 2700X (Be Quiet! Dark Rock 3)
      • Memory:
      • 16GB Patriot Viper 2 @ 3466MHz
      • Storage:
      • 500GB WD Black
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire R9 290X Vapor-X
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic Focus Gold 750W
      • Case:
      • Lian Li PC-V359
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 x64
      • Internet:
      • BT Infinity 80/20

    Re: News - Apple wins initial ITC ruling over HTC

    I would be curious to know the difference in budget allowance between the technology departments and the legal departments. Plot the figures out over the last ~20 years and i bet the lines would be interesting, but not at all surprising.

  17. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,772
    Thanks
    103
    Thanked
    76 times in 69 posts
    • pp05's system
      • Motherboard:
      • AsRock Fatal1ty B450 Gaming itx
      • CPU:
      • Ryzen 3 2200G
      • Memory:
      • Ballistix Elite 8GB Kit 3200 UDIMM
      • Storage:
      • Kingston 240gb SSD
      • PSU:
      • Kolink SFX 350W PSU
      • Case:
      • Kolink Sattelite plus MITX
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10

    Re: News - Apple wins initial ITC ruling over HTC

    Quote Originally Posted by aidanjt View Post
    The US patent system needs taken out the back and shot. What was once a layer of protection for small/hobbyist inventors has been corrupted by cronyism to the point that it's useless for the intended protectees and only serves as a stick for incumbents to beat down the small players with.
    Ditto.

    The patent system needs to be simplified across the board. The US patent system presently is heavily bias to registering the patent, they simply have no incentive to check the patents properly. Which is why you get these head on collisions with major corporations. Congress had a vote on whether to overhaul it and passed so let us see how they will implement it. These changes won't come into effect until after 2015.

  18. #15
    Moosing about! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Not here
    Posts
    32,039
    Thanks
    3,910
    Thanked
    5,224 times in 4,015 posts
    • CAT-THE-FIFTH's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Less E-PEEN
      • CPU:
      • Massive E-PEEN
      • Memory:
      • RGB E-PEEN
      • Storage:
      • Not in any order
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVEN BIGGER E-PEEN
      • PSU:
      • OVERSIZED
      • Case:
      • UNDERSIZED
      • Operating System:
      • DOS 6.22
      • Monitor(s):
      • NOT USUALLY ON....WHEN I POST
      • Internet:
      • FUNCTIONAL

    Re: News - Apple wins initial ITC ruling over HTC

    Some more details about the patents:

    http://www.dailytech.com/EDITORIAL+H...ticle22184.htm

  19. #16
    Moosing about! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Not here
    Posts
    32,039
    Thanks
    3,910
    Thanked
    5,224 times in 4,015 posts
    • CAT-THE-FIFTH's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Less E-PEEN
      • CPU:
      • Massive E-PEEN
      • Memory:
      • RGB E-PEEN
      • Storage:
      • Not in any order
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVEN BIGGER E-PEEN
      • PSU:
      • OVERSIZED
      • Case:
      • UNDERSIZED
      • Operating System:
      • DOS 6.22
      • Monitor(s):
      • NOT USUALLY ON....WHEN I POST
      • Internet:
      • FUNCTIONAL

    Re: News - Apple wins initial ITC ruling over HTC

    It looks Google has said they are going to support HTC now:

    http://www.toptechnews.com/story.xht...d=103004B5B8XP

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •