Features - Preview: Corsair Vengeance K60

[HEXUS]

An exclusive first look at Corsair's FPS gaming keyboard.

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[watercooled]

Still not sure I get 'gaming' mouse+keyboards - I see them as nothing more than overpriced, over-marketed input devices (usually of a lower quality than a decent 'normal' brand). I'm perfectly happy playing with my wireless laser mouse (MX620) and Cherry keyboard - I see none of teh dreaded input lag or ghosting! :O

When you expect easily ~10ms between input and display on screen because of processing/screen latency and such, I'm not sure 1μs less from a 'gaming' keyboard is going to make much of a difference.

[c.ruel]

It's a shame that alot of "gaming keyboard" manufacturers don't copy the layout design of the roccat ARVO. The arvo is a really cheapo execution but an awesome layout, I love the shortened width of it and the thumbster keys ... I wish that design would become standing for gaming keyboards.

The problem with the corsair K60 is it is about 5 years too late. Would have maybe been worth while for serious CS 1.6 gamers at lan but with the current generation of fps titles (can't comment on other game types) just not worth it. Playing 1.6 you could never get away with a wireless mouse but with the current popular fps titles like mw2 where snail like reactions are fine I don't see the point in decent peripherals (although n key rollover is important but any decent keyboard should give you sufficient rollover).

EDIT: just noticed your reply watercooled ... I couldn't agree more. I remember in 2005 when tournaments first switched from CRTs to LCDs and the lots of teams (the top ones and the amateur ones) described the input lag as horrendously. That would have been about 30-60ms on the early LCDs I would have thought? Can't see a keyboard like this making too much difference back then and zero now. But it does look pretty and the mechanical keys would be good for touch typing I guess!?

[george1979]

Did I read this correctly? £89 for this?
Those red topped keys look like crap and, perhaps the pictures don't do it justice here, it generally looks cheap.
Is it just me that's fed up going to this site to see another story about yet another Corsair product release?
Corsair should focus focus on doing some things really well (I own a H50 and Dominator RAM) - not lots of things things done poorly. Too many firms think they have to get into too many other areas and quality and/or customer service slides as a result.
I'll stick with Logitech...

[Hicks12]

george i think you have missed a key point.... logitech arent mechanical and KRO is far superior on corsair/other mech keyboards, quality is another factor as your membrane based keyboards will last like <5 years? contacts get harder to press whereas mechs last atleast 5x longer and are easy to fix and dont get harder to register they just die at the end .

Good preview, nice you picked up on the top row being membrane... as much as i love corsair im going to have to call BS on their comment about it not being about cost as it really is! If they wanted the actuation force higher and stuff (as they make it out) then they should have just changed the switch type for them keys, i.e put mxblacks are they are just stiffer reds. Its not hard to do at all, infact i bet it was more of an effort to add in a membrane piece rather than changing to another mech switch. I also dont get how you accidently press esc f1-12??? its well away from typing area lol.

[shaithis]

Any keyboard built well enough to batter justin beiber into a bloody pulp, then provide me with an amazing gaming experience - strait after the aforementioned "productivity" - is on my short-list.

[watercooled]

The problem with the corsair K60 is it is about 5 years too late. Would have maybe been worth while for serious CS 1.6 gamers at lan but with the current generation of fps titles (can't comment on other game types) just not worth it. Playing 1.6 you could never get away with a wireless mouse but with the current popular fps titles like mw2 where snail like reactions are fine I don't see the point in decent peripherals (although n key rollover is important but any decent keyboard should give you sufficient rollover).

EDIT: just noticed your reply watercooled ... I couldn't agree more. I remember in 2005 when tournaments first switched from CRTs to LCDs and the lots of teams (the top ones and the amateur ones) described the input lag as horrendously. That would have been about 30-60ms on the early LCDs I would have thought? Can't see a keyboard like this making too much difference back then and zero now. But it does look pretty and the mechanical keys would be good for touch typing I guess!?

Must admit I never played 1.6 back then so can't comment but I've owned a 'gaming' mouse and really didn't notice any difference. What I did notice however was the horrendous pain in my wrist after a few days of using it, switched back to me MX620 and it went - I know which impaired my reaction time most. Something else to note about the wired gaming mouse is the wire kept getting caught on stuff and when I let go it was pulling the mouse away (depends on desk layout I know but you avoid this with wireless) and with the mouse being so light, it kept lifting off the mat and ending up on my fingers (again, subjective). Wired/wireless won't make a noticeable difference in latency - what I think most of the improvement comes from is gaming mice keep the sensor on constantly so you're not waiting for the next 'flash' in a low-power mode to detect movement. Not great for battery life or sensor life though (I've heard of quite a few gaming mice burning the sensor).

A more robust keyboard would be good for withstanding gamer's rage though. And yeah, early LCDs really weren't suitable for gaming.

[Gareth - ASUS]

Good preview, nice you picked up on the top row being membrane... as much as i love corsair im going to have to call BS on their comment about it not being about cost as it really is! If they wanted the actuation force higher and stuff (as they make it out) then they should have just changed the switch type for them keys, i.e put mxblacks are they are just stiffer reds. Its not hard to do at all, infact i bet it was more of an effort to add in a membrane piece rather than changing to another mech switch. I also dont get how you accidently press esc f1-12??? its well away from typing area lol.

The reason we didn't just use MX Blacks is that they are no more 'damped' than MX Reds, just stiffer. The point to using these membrane keys is so that we could tune the force and damping to reduce the change of accidental presses, since the Reds are so fast and twitchy. The idea being that these keys are usually just hit once, rather than double-tapped or hit multiple times in quick succession.

It was something we specifically designed into the layout, because it is a custom design and we could, rather than just taking an off-the-shelf keyboard.

Perhaps it's not for everyone, but that is why we chose membrane, rather than another mechanical key, and I think it’s actually pretty innovative.

Regarding the comments about how it looks, I've been using K60 (and K90 on a different PC) for some time, and they look and feel great. I know I would say that, but seeing is believing. We'll try to get them on show as much as possible for people to actually get hands on, as I know photos don't do them justice.

[Hicks12]

Appreciate you actually providing some more insight as to why you chose membrane as apposed to another switch (apologises if my post came across aggressive, i dont think that day was a good day!).

Surely having an increase in required force does infact reduce accidental presses? Now the main question is why would accidental presses be a problem in that area? surely something like the wasd / number keys would be problem areas and not function keys?. A very valid point with the double tapping, somehow I overlooked that, perhaps using something like an MX blue would have been better? I know my comments wont really affect anything as its only my opinion and im sure the experts know more than me and can justify it .

I bet it does look nicer in person, my Filco keyboard looks alot better in person and is solid . Maybe you guys can send me the k60 so i can try out the reds .

[Gareth - ASUS]

Preventing accidental presses is more for the Macro keys on the K90, since the heavier damping really helps here. As it's a custom layout, we could also drop the level of the Macro keys slightly below the main keys, again to help prevent accidental actuation, and give a bit of a tactile clue as to where the macro keys begin.

For the top row, it's more about having a firmer, more damped key feel, since they aren't movement keys etc, and you typically just hit them once. Blue or Brown would have been noticeably quite jarring compared to the Reds. The use of membrane just seemed the right fit, and the engineers have spent a lot of time tuning the feel so that it works.

Probably the first place you'll get to see them is at the LITS show in London, but we'll try to get them on show as much as possible.

[Noli]

Blackbeard

I just wanted to say how great it was to read responses from you - replies such as yours on forum boards always serves to increase my respect for a company and its products. It seems that the K60 and K90 are the first mechanical keyboards targeted at gamers in a long time. It's certainly an opportunity that I feel Logitech has missed out on. I have yet to get a mechanical kb but am looking to at some point.

Unlike other mechanical kbs, I'm glad they've got basic media buttons and that volume roller looks like a lovely touch. I read no mention of a PS2 connector and although a dying standard, ironically, it seems daft not to have included it given that it is the only one that supports full NKRO. I know 20 KRO over USB is probably more than I need but nevertheless given the keyboards' intended markets...

Hicks12

Can I ask what switches your Filco has? And how do you find it? My focus is on both typing as well as gaming. From what I've read, the MX reds sound too light plus I like the idea that I can positively feel the actuation. Part of me loves the 'old school' sound of the clackety MX blues but it may be too much for others in the living room(!) so I'm thinking that the browns sound like a good all round compromise for me?

[Gareth - ASUS]

Noli, as you hinted at, we didn't use PS/2 as it is a dying / dead standard, and there was no real advantage to it. The USB / PS/2 argument has mainly been around the fact you can get NKRO on PS/2, but since we have 20-key rollover over USB, there was little benefit to PS/2 for us. Unless you play with both hands, both feet and occasionally faceplant the keyboard, I don't see how anyone would need more than 20!

[Noli]

... Unless you play with both hands, both feet and occasionally faceplant the keyboard, I don't see how anyone would need more than 20!

hahaha! Ok fair enough


::faceplants keyboard::