News - Kodak files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy

[HEXUS]

The old dog's looking for help to restructure business by 2013.

Read more.

[crossy]

The nostalgic part of me hopes that Kodak makes it successfully through their restructuring - my first camera was a little Kodak load-point-and-shoot and my first digital camera was a 2Mpix EasyShare, (and I've still got the latter).

On the other hand, if their "transformation" results in yet another patent troll, then I hope the company disappears with rapidity.

[shaithis]

I know there has been various bits of news floating around about this for a while but I am still quite shocked as they are such an iconic brand.

I would have thought they had quite a portfolio of patents from over the years though.

[Saracen]

It's worth remembering that a prime function of Chapter 11 is to avoid liquidation. A major feature is that it protects the company from the more predatory actions of one or some creditors, putting the emphasis on protecting all creditors and, if at all possible, getting the company through the situation it's in and surviving, albeit often "restructured", as mentioned in the feature.

It's easy to hear the work "bankruptcy" and assume the company is toes-up, and while that may yet be the result, a fair proportion of C.11 cases end up with a reformed, leaner and perhaps smaller, but viable, outcome.

As shaithis said, and Crossy intimated without quite saying it, they're an iconic brand. I hope they get through this.

One of the ironies is that the first couple of digital cameras I ever used were Kodak-branded. And that's in the days when digital cameras were a novelty, because few people had ever seen one. I took them to a relative's wedding in the USA, and every time I put one down, I'd find it vanished and was being played with by someone on an adjoining table, because they'd never seen a camera where you could take a picture, and immediately view it on a screen on the back.

When you think about it, it's a bit shocking that something so utterly revolutionary not that long ago is so commonplace now that it's getting harder and harder to buy a mobile phone that doesn't have such a capability built-in, almost as an afterthought.

And even my mother-in-law has just gone digital. If any of you knew her, you know just how much that marks the end-game death-knell for film as anything other than a speciality for enthusiasts, or very specific special purposes, and that seems to be a large factor in Kodak's problems, despite them being involved on the leading edge of digital. One wonders quite how they managed that?

Those cameras, by the way, were a DC-20 and DC-25, IIRC.

[Phage]

Shelley's Ozymandias leaps to mind.
My first camera was a Kodak that took the 110 cartridges. I'd love to see them survive and make a go of it. It would be the biggest turnaround from obsolescence since sliderules.

[mikerr]

One of the old guard brands

Despite that I can't think of anything good they have produced in the last ten years...

[edit] Just had a think, and I am still using a kodak W820 wifi frame (shows pictures from my flickr account )

[crossy]

Those cameras, by the way, were a DC-20 and DC-25, IIRC.

DX3500 - the dock was a good idea (charged the batteries and permitted one-button-transfer of files). But the battery packs were distinctly suspect (I switched to normal batteries), and it was slow to start up. Once it was running thought, the pics it took were darn good quality for a 2MPix. Actually I only switched to digital so I could get pics of my second kid out quick to the relatives.

Where can Kodak go from here - especially assuming that they're going to continue to sell to the end-consumer? Their printers seem to be quite reasonable, and I've heard mixed reviews of the cameras - some are quite good, others distinctly dodgy. I just can't see what their unique selling point would be against Lexmark, HP, Canon, Nikon, Samsung, Epson, et al.

[ik9000]

When I was at uni digital cameras were in their infancy. We had a lecture on Business Strategy where the lecturer cited the head of Kodak standing up at a world Photography seminar and blasting digital imaging/computer companies for attending arguing that they "weren't in the industry"!

The lecturer's point was that you need to know what market you're in if you are to have a hope of succeeding. It's much the same as the steam train industry who argued diesel would never catch on, people loved steam too much, the romance, the atmosphere, not the horrid diesel. Sadly people just wanted to get from A to B as quickly as possible (Virgin trains take note) much like they just want to take pictures as quickly and easily as possible, and preferably without the developing costs and storage hassles of film. For Kodak the writing was on the wall 10 years ago sadly.

[Saracen]

When I was at uni digital cameras were in their infancy. We had a lecture on Business Strategy where the lecturer cited the head of Kodak standing up at a world Photography seminar and blasting digital imaging/computer companies for attending arguing that they "weren't in the industry"!

The lecturer's point was that you need to know what market you're in if you are to have a hope of succeeding. It's much the same as the steam train industry who argued diesel would never catch on, people loved steam too much, the romance, the atmosphere, not the horrid diesel. Sadly people just wanted to get from A to B as quickly as possible (Virgin trains take note) much like they just want to take pictures as quickly and easily as possible, and preferably without the developing costs and storage hassles of film. For Kodak the writing was on the wall 10 years ago sadly.

Sounds like that Kodak exec was standing there in the marketplace flogging his wares, blissfully unaware that the customers were all either leaving, or gone. Markets change, and consumers move. Ask the High Street shops, like butchers and fish-mongers, and Tesco.

Of course, that doesn't always mean it's a good thing. Ask the High Street shops ... if you can find them.

[Phage]

We are lucky to have kept two butchers and a proper baker in our little town. But then, it is a relatively affluent area where people are prepared to pay a little more for the service and quality.
Pubs have just about had it though.

[ik9000]

Sounds like that Kodak exec was standing there in the marketplace flogging his wares, blissfully unaware that the customers were all either leaving, or gone.

Yeah, he was too narrow in his view. Kodak thought photography = film. Digital to them was a side line they were forced into competing in. As Saracen says, the customers just disappeared while Kodak were snoozing and blowing their money on APS film gimmickry. Kodak needed to develop their own cameras or partner with a firm who was. They really should have grabbed HP and said, hey we can bring complimentary skills to this, let's take on Canon.

Instead they.... well they tried for a while using those instant print booths you see in boots, where you can stick in your memory card and print actual photos. It's useful to some no question, but the quality isn't like the old Kodak labs used to print out. The ability to crop on my own machine, then print using photo ink on photo gloss paper, in the quantity I want, but without the loading of charges from a 3rd party means I will rarely, if ever, now resort to using the booths in Boots or similar. And that's the problem. Even those without photoink are quite happy not printing proper photos bar the odd one or two special ones to go in a frame.

[ik9000]

We are lucky to have kept two butchers and a proper baker in our little town. But then, it is a relatively affluent area where people are prepared to pay a little more for the service and quality.
Pubs have just about had it though.

This may in part be to the breweries. My uncle ran a pub for a bit but the brewery (his backer Ha ha) put him out of business by refusing to let him buy wholesale rates from anyone else. A freehouse opened up without the constraint, just bought whatever was cheapest at any given time, from whoever they could get it from and put him out of business, even though they were a nastier venue. They then got bored, sold it on, and it is now a car show room. The result? The old pub is back open with new management and higher prices than either of the two had before. Stupid hey?

[crossy]

Yeah, he was too narrow in his view. Kodak thought photography = film. Digital to them was a side line they were forced into competing in. As Saracen says, the customers just disappeared while Kodak were snoozing and blowing their money on APS film gimmickry. Kodak needed to develop their own cameras or partner with a firm who was. They really should have grabbed HP and said, hey we can bring complimentary skills to this, let's take on Canon.

That's a dollop of 24 carat sense in my book. I had an APS camera, but the fact that the film was ferociously expensive to get developed meant I passed it onto a relative.

I'll agree 100% with that last line (although Canon's a big HP partner) - HP Photosmart camera's were pretty crappy (are they still available, or did they get dropped?)- so there'd be a good place to start. Get Kodak cameras to seamlessly link to HP printers to do their prints, then extend that to other (non-camera) printer manufacturers - Lexmark is the next one I'd pick, possibly Epson (although I know the latter does do basic cameras).

[mikerr]

Isn't it similar to Nokia - a company who once had the whole phone market to themselves, somehow lost the lot.

1976: Kodak sold 90% of the photographic film in the US along with 85% of the cameras

[Saracen]

Isn't it similar to Nokia - a company who once had the whole phone market to themselves, somehow lost the lot.

I'm no expert in mobile phones. 'Absolutely determined to remain firmly luddite' would be nearer the mark. But from what I can make of it .... yes. I'd say they've probably still got the imprint of laurels on their backsides from the length of time they firmly rested on them. Shame really, because they've long been one of my favourites. They seemed to miss, for far too long, that people like me (wanting a high quality, basic, idiot phone (as opposed to "smart-phone", not, of course, referring to the IQ of the user ), ) were an ever-decreasing minority, and that smart-phones were where smart money was going. They've woken up to that, but is it in time?


PS. Before some pedant refers to the grammatically inappropriateness of nested loops of parentheses in text, yes, I know.

[Phage]

Actually, I find myself hankering after a Nokia 8310 again. I could fit that in my pocket...