News - Google Android ported from Java to C# and it's blazing

[HEXUS]

Large portions of Android's source-code ported by Mono developer, Xamarin.

Read more.

[13thmonkey]

got be to some battery savings in those kinds of performance increases.

[Scribe]

got be to some battery savings in those kinds of performance increases.

Xamarin claims there is for sure.

[Hicks12]

interesting... I hope they manage to do this as id prefer to keep to C# rather than java and it already seems to be more beneficial in performance!

[crossy]

Do this writer's eyes deceive him or does C# Mono severely trounce Java Dalvik?

If that graph is to be believed then that's surely about a six-fold increase in potential performance with moving from Java to Mono. Holy hauling it batman!

perhaps Google, will take note of the firm's progress

Hmm, if Google have any sense then they should be watching Xamarin VERY closely. If C# can deliver that kind of increase across the board then that's got to be a convincing reason to switch by itself (flipping the bird to Oracle being another good reason).

Got to wonder what Microsoft's take on this would be - if I was in the C# team in Redmond I think I'd be helpless on the floor with laughter or shouting "see, I told you so, Java sux!"

So how long before we get "Android - better powered by .NET!" ads from Microsoft!

[directhex]

Got to wonder what Microsoft's take on this would be - if I was in the C# team in Redmond I think I'd be helpless on the floor with laughter or shouting "see, I told you so, Java sux!"

The biggest issue is Dalvik sucks. Oracle's Java VM, Hotspot, is faster than Mono - uses buckets more RAM, but is faster. But since Google NIH'd Dalvik, and Dalvik is crap (read: very young and immature compared to everything else) it's not hard for Mono to trounce it.

[Hicks12]

problem with using Hotspot is the fact they would actually need to give money to Oracle and we know Oracle dont like Google so it wouldnt be a small sum! C# would be free, it would nullify the Oracle lawsuit (at least if they agree on a fine it wont continue increasing) so android could benefit greatly. It will be an interesting development for sure, we will just have to wait and see if it really does bring tangible benefits with it

[Scribe]

problem with using Hotspot is the fact they would actually need to give money to Oracle and we know Oracle dont like Google so it wouldnt be a small sum! C# would be free, it would nullify the Oracle lawsuit (at least if they agree on a fine it wont continue increasing) so android could benefit greatly. It will be an interesting development for sure, we will just have to wait and see if it really does bring tangible benefits with it

If oracle forces them to pay licensing, least they can do if throw in some optimisations =P

[bledd]

Does this mean current Android devices could be moved to the new platform?

Always hated Java, every Java program in Windows is slow, clunky and backwards

[crossy]

The biggest issue is Dalvik sucks. Oracle's Java VM, Hotspot, is faster than Mono - uses buckets more RAM, but is faster. But since Google NIH'd Dalvik, and Dalvik is crap (read: very young and immature compared to everything else) it's not hard for Mono to trounce it.

Hmm, Hotspot and Dalvik are designed for different audiences - Dalvik's always claimed that memory efficiency was #1. So while Android probably deserves a "better" JVM, Hotspot isn't it. From what I've seen Mono is only 4ish years older than Dalvik, not a huge amount I guess, but significant in this market.

I'm not sure you meant that Google applied not-invented-here to Dalvik, believing that you meant that Google chose Dalvik because it was "their" solution. That said, the less Oracle stuff I have, the better I like it - only use VirtualBox because there's no real alternatives atm.

Good though that you make the distinction between software that is crap because it's intrinsically poor, and stuff that's just underdeveloped. That's a fine point that a lot of people forget. E.g. OpenOffice is crappy, which is why I'd argue that the much tweaked LibreOffice fork is always "better".

As to Dalvik itself, again a good point you make - Dalvik may be pretty hopeless at the moment, but I'm sure that Google are spending considerable resources trying to make it better. I certainly remember the big jump in performance between Android 1.6 and 2.2 - pretty much attributed to "better" Dalvik.

Still think that if there's tricks that Xamarin are playing to get their performance level then Google should try and license, etc.

[TheAnimus]

The biggest issue is Dalvik sucks. Oracle's Java VM, Hotspot, is faster than Mono - uses buckets more RAM, but is faster. But since Google NIH'd Dalvik, and Dalvik is crap (read: very young and immature compared to everything else) it's not hard for Mono to trounce it.

Glad someone else pointed this out.

This isn't a Java sucks thing, its a Dalvik, a major core component of Andriod sucks.

However the dev does make a good point, if they choose to leverage the free mono framework, they could get some significant gains and end their legal woes.

[adam.mt]

Always thought how unfair the processor benchmarks were comparing Android handsets to iPhones (don't consider OS overhead).

Explains why Qualcomm, Samsung, Nvidia and TI have appeared so far behind in CPU performance to Apple (who got their ARM tech from purchasing a couple of no-one's heard of CPU design companies). Put simply iOS is more efficient than Android/Dalvik.

Now wonder what those benchmarks would show given a better Java VM?

[Kryloch]

I'm really hoping that C# takes more ground overall. While Java has its uses, I just personally prefer working with C#, it just feels more comfortable to work with. Even though in truth they are similar in structure to a point.

Though as it has been stated this current advantage could just be due to the stage of development in each package.

[jackjack]

hopefully sum members kindly share it with us his personal review. it would be use full enough info for us to see how much does this new platform (me is a noob obviously) boost up our gadget

[crossy]

Explains why Qualcomm, Samsung, Nvidia and TI have appeared so far behind in CPU performance to Apple (who got their ARM tech from purchasing a couple of no-one's heard of CPU design companies). Put simply iOS is more efficient than Android/Dalvik.

You've forgotten the point directhex makes above - iOS is "better" at the moment because it's had more development time, Dalvik is still a toddler in comparison. Every new Android version seems to deliver improvements in this area, so performance/efficiency has not been overlooked.

That said, I'd be a whole lot happier if Android actually was able to "borrow" ( ) something from iOS in that some core components were pushed out from Google directly. In the case of Dalvik that'd make it far easier for new and better versions of that critical component to be delivered to everyone. The current scheme where you're totally reliant on the phone manufacturer, and the best you can expect is to get one major version update and then you're expected to buy a new device is a piece of nonsense imho.

Hopefully (fingers crossed) this Ximian stuff will force Google management to throw extra resource at Dalvik development and we'll see a big jump in efficiency with the next ICS upgrade, or even JB, (being selfish I figure whatever phone I buy this year - if it's a 2012 model should ship with ICS and get JB later).

Being rude, if Google don't continue to optimise Dalvik then they deserve to fail and might as well hand majority share of the smartphone market to Apple.

[RKalker]

I came into Android late, JB, but I have not considered it slow in comparison to mates phones I have used. The battery life is the real killer for me atm, HTC Desire HD, a day if I actually use the phone, 2 days if I dont use it :-(