News - Virgin first to follow court order to block Pirate Bay

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Pirate Bay report best ever UK visitor stats.

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[g8ina]

With so many alternatives and workrounds, it does make you wonder why they bother blocking it.

[anselhelm]

Sigh.

It saddens me how the courts have become the playthings of corporations and copyright groups. Furthermore, they do not seem to comprehend the simple concept of the Streisand Effect.

Whilst I may not condone copyright infringement per se, the industries have NOT offered a genuine and viable alternative to it, especially if you want lossless music or blu ray quality 1080P videos at a price reflecting the lack of cost to physically produce and distribute it.

Look at the computer game platform Steam. Though it has DRM, the DRM is completely transparent and the frequent sales make the platform a genuinely good one. This is the model that everyone should be aiming for, rather than censorship.

It would also help if the idiots in charge would learn the difference between theft, copyright infringement and piracy. Downloading something that you do not own is NOT theft, as the original is still there. Moreover, most downloads of this nature would never have resulted in a real life sale in any case (hence no actual loss) and real evidence shows that some of the people who pirate films the most actually go to see the most films at the cinema.

/rant off

[Scribe]

You know it's because, unlike newzbin, Pirate Bay by promoting torrents, hammers Virgin's network, especially its upload and is a big contributor to peak-time bandwidth restrictions. Otherwise I doubt they'd have been in such a rush. There's even a European court ruling that says they don't have to comply to blocking, hence why BT wanted to first consider its stance on the matter.

[Fraz]

Meh - I agree it's a fairly pointless action. Still, I have little tolerance for people downloading music, films and games these days when they have not paid one iota at any point for the intellectual property. And by that, I'm talking about people that don't support the industry at any level, either through going to the cinema to see the film, buying the CD, or attending the gig. It's stupid on many levels. Sure there are some really big companies/films/artists/etc out there that rake it in regardless of the pirates, but it really stifles the smaller artists/creators, starving them of the income they deserve.

And on a more personal level, when I used to download/blag music many years ago when I was a student, it totally devalued the experience. I'd have tons of music, most of which I didn't want, and none of it held that "treasured album" feel of buying something I really wanted and listening to it many times. I just ended up with too much choice, and a whole bunch of music I hadn't even heard of let alone wanted to listen to. I'd imagine the same would be true of copied console/PC games, although I never did this.

Nowadays I pay for what I want, and I'm a lot happier for it.

[Arthran]

Still, I have little tolerance for people downloading music, films and games these days when they have not paid one iota at any point for the intellectual property. And by that, I'm talking about people that don't support the industry at any level, either through going to the cinema to see the film, buying the CD, or attending the gig.

Does that mean people who do support the industry but use downloads to supplement what they cant get through normal channels get some tolerance?

I hate discussions on Piracy, because it always ends up being looked at in black and white, when in reality its a ton of shades of grey.

On topic, Virgin being first makes me glad I moved to BT. I rarely if ever use TPB, but knowing there IS a ton of legit material there, and even so much as artists like Dan Bull used it to get into the charts with a free single, I find it repulsive that we have an ISP that feels censorship is the answer to another industries issues. We are fast following the US down a dangerous path, how long till we try to pull a MegaUpload?

[crossy]

(reply to Fraz posting #5) Does that mean people who do support the industry but use downloads to supplement what they cant get through normal channels get some tolerance?

If that's what Fraz meant, then I'd agree 100%. Stuff that I've got through the black net is SOLELY because a "legit" copy wasn't available. E.g. I had a couple of episodes of the old Batman tv series, some Family Guy and some Three Stooges films. As soon as the studios deigned to offer a "proper" copy of these then I deleted the yo-ho copies and paid my money. Actually in the case of Family Guy - I bought the big boxed set - so the studio ended up making more from me than they would otherwise. (Please don't slag me off for my choice of viewing material!)
If I can't buy what I'm after then how the heck can the studios etc insist that they lost a sale by me downloading that content?

I hate discussions on Piracy, because it always ends up being looked at in black and white, when in reality its a ton of shades of grey.

Oh so true, trouble is that politicians and "big media" insist on seeing as black or white - either you're a law-abiding upright citizen, or a skulking pirate who needs to be punished more than muggers, rapists and murderers. Stupid, stupid, stupid, ...

On topic, Virgin being first makes me glad I moved to BT.

Remember that, before you rip a strip off of VM, that there's a court order to do this. So they're merely doing what they're told. Now whether that court order should have been granted in the first place is another argument (and I think "no"). And that's about as far as I'm going to go in standing up for VM - still angry that my "double speed" link is actually slower than the old one I had.

[Arthran]

Agree totally Crossy, Apart from the fact that as Scribe has pointed out above, Virgin didn't have to comply because there's an over-riding EU court decision saying they don't have to. But that's a whole other story

[aidanjt]

Meh - I agree it's a fairly pointless action. Still, I have little tolerance for people downloading music, films and games these days when they have not paid one iota at any point for the intellectual property. And by that, I'm talking about people that don't support the industry at any level, either through going to the cinema to see the film, buying the CD, or attending the gig. It's stupid on many levels. Sure there are some really big companies/films/artists/etc out there that rake it in regardless of the pirates, but it really stifles the smaller artists/creators, starving them of the income they deserve.

Actually, research shows the exact opposite is true. To the extent that many small artists are even voluntarily put their music up on torrent sites for grabs to promote and generate band interest to sell tickets for gigs, where they make the real money anyway. Unfortunately big content has decided to lie about the numbers, and many people accept what they say at bare face.

And on a more personal level, when I used to download/blag music many years ago when I was a student, it totally devalued the experience. I'd have tons of music, most of which I didn't want, and none of it held that "treasured album" feel of buying something I really wanted and listening to it many times. I just ended up with too much choice, and a whole bunch of music I hadn't even heard of let alone wanted to listen to. I'd imagine the same would be true of copied console/PC games, although I never did this.

Free always makes even rubbish a viable value proposition. Needless to say, you'd never have bought, or held dear, rubbish music anyway. So your impact on those artists was nil. At least you had the opportunity to be informed about the articles before making any decisions about opening your wallet.

[Jimbo75]

With so many alternatives and workrounds, it does make you wonder why they bother blocking it.

Because they are basically clueless.

These people are clueless, they simply don't realise that they are just making the issue worse for themselves. Every time they do this kind of thing, it just gets worse. Remember Kazaa? Killing them off brought in The Pirate Bay. Kill TPB and they'll bring in something a lot worse. They deserve it tbh.

[Noxvayl]

And on a more personal level, when I used to download/blag music many years ago when I was a student, it totally devalued the experience. I'd have tons of music, most of which I didn't want, and none of it held that "treasured album" feel of buying something I really wanted and listening to it many times. I just ended up with too much choice, and a whole bunch of music I hadn't even heard of let alone wanted to listen to. I'd imagine the same would be true of copied console/PC games, although I never did this.

Nowadays I pay for what I want, and I'm a lot happier for it.

My experience is somewhat different... I used to pirate games because I couldn't get them at a local store whether I had the money or not and could only get 1-3 games per year being in high school. What ended up happening is that my group of friends would each purchase a game we all wanted and then we'd share each others games. This is deemed pirating but it's so ridiculous to call it that.

Sharing and borrowing is an encouraged activity which is why we did it but of course content producers view it differently. If it wasn't for me playing those games without buying them I would not have purchased the 50+ games I currently own through Steam in the last 5 years. A proper understanding of the issue is lacking and until governments(Switzerland has already done this) investigate the claims the copyright holders make we'll continue this pointless battle over internet censorship.

[Brewster0101]

The pirate bay offers a service that so so many people...

Like drugs and prostitution , when you ban it it just goes underground and becomes even harder to regulate and control. The pirate bay or other alternatives will do the same. People will still use them but they will be harder to control and regulate.

The UK government will now have to spend more resources in a futile attempt to stop people from using the likes of pirate bay...

[Terbinator]

And on a more personal level, when I used to download/blag music many years ago when I was a student, it totally devalued the experience... I'd imagine the same would be true of copied console/PC games, although I never did this.

Although i don't want to agree with a comment i read a few weeks back (as i like cheap games ), someone from a fairly big publisher denounced the Steam sales as they reduce the value of the game, in the sense you've pointed out with music.

I personally have so many games on Steam because they were so cheap/part of a bundle that i can't even be bothered to play them, and those that i do, i very rarely complete.

[Fraz]

Actually, research shows the exact opposite is true. To the extent that many small artists are even voluntarily put their music up on torrent sites for grabs to promote and generate band interest to sell tickets for gigs, where they make the real money anyway. Unfortunately big content has decided to lie about the numbers, and many people accept what they say at bare face.

I have nothing against people putting up free stuff to garner interest. My comment wasn't about that. The people I detest are the people that basically pay nothing *all the time*. I can think of plenty of people like this... and quite often they'd have well paid jobs to boot. Just total penny-pinching gits, basically.

Obviously it's a grey area, but it's the people that just feel entitled to take whatever they can all the time and give nothing back that wind me up.

Free always makes even rubbish a viable value proposition. Needless to say, you'd never have bought, or held dear, rubbish music anyway. So your impact on those artists was nil. At least you had the opportunity to be informed about the articles before making any decisions about opening your wallet.

Maybe... but I still think there are plenty of other free avenues of exploration and discovery that the artists themselves legitimately can chose. I think it's slightly sad if your way of discovering an artist is to first "steal" their music... *shrug* Then you're not even supporting the industries/magazines/websites that provide exposure to artists, are you?

[Noxvayl]

Although i don't want to agree with a comment i read a few weeks back (as i like cheap games ), someone from a fairly big publisher denounced the Steam sales as they reduce the value of the game, in the sense you've pointed out with music.

This is what I have read regarding Steam: http://penny-arcade.com/report/edito...velopers-and-p

GoG.com were complaining about the devaluation of games thanks to Steam but I doubt it has any relation to customers or developers because they stand to loose directly as a result. I like GoG.com but it's obvious how their view is biased.

[Terbinator]

Think it was GoG actually, as i remember it being Witcher 2 related.