News - Microsoft has released Windows 8.1 & RT 8.1 to hardware partners

[HEXUS]

Everyone else, including subscribers to MSDN and TechNet will wait until 18th October.

Read more.

[RussiaForever]

Windows...
It's all about Ubuntu

[TheAnimus]

Brilliant..... Why on earth do this? Is testing my software with a beta probably OK? Yes. But is it certain? No!

I can't see their rational.

[Bazz]

Windows...
It's all about Ubuntu

Of course it is.
Tired of people like you knocking MS or Windows.
They both have their place in the market, simple!

[crossy]

Also don't forget people in many world regions will be able to upgrade to Windows 8.1 via download from 17th October.

Thanks for this warning - so basically for about a week from the 17th onwards you won't be able to download anything from Microsoft and the whole net will be slower.

I've got two HP branded PC's running Windows8 in the house, and it'll be interesting to see how quickly those two decide to offer the upgrade (or try and do it automatically).

Here's a thought - if Microsoft want to push Windows8.1 adoption prior to Christmas then they could always do an 8.1 offer - to perhaps persuade 8 refuseniks like me to switch. But I don't want any of that "OEM package" nonsense where you can't move the license to a new build.

[TheAnimus]

Nah the update is less in size than the latest breaking bad episode.

It might have been a problem for the internet 10 years ago, but now, its just a blink.

[cjs150]

I run w8 on two computers - an HTPC and a standard desktop.

There are some many "design decisions" with w8 which cause problems that I cannot believe w8.1 will fix them all. Personally I had no problem with a lack of start button but areas which really irritated me:

1. No clock on the metro screen - come on guys even my android phone has this
2. Libraries and NAS - total shambles, although in fairness I think this goes back to w7. MS need to realise that us desktop users do not want everything in a cloud.
3. Homegroups: too limiting
4. As for metro apps, I had to look it up how to close them - mouse to top, wait for mouse icon to change to hand and then drag it to the bottom is not intuitive, I know alt f4 works but clicking x in the top right hand corner is easier

[TheAnimus]

1. There is an App for that! (just like the widget for andriod) or whack windows + C
2. Not sure what you mean, I have all my NAS folders mounted as members of the Library.
3. How so? It is about sharing certain simple files, in a simple security way, you can always drop back to NT and have full control?
4. The idea is to not need to close them, they go in to a low useage state. The programming model is quite interesting for them as they have to all be re-active and friendly for batterylife. The issue here is that you are trying to close them. But I agree taskman on metro (or on the charms bar) would be very nice.

[cjs150]

TheAnimus

1. There are many apps for it - just none built into the system from the start as it should have been
2. Only two ways of getting NAS folders as part of your library, use a fudge (mk /d for indirection) or have a full network client/server set up. Windows 8 does not index folders natively on NAS so you cannot simply click to link - w8 is supposed to be user friendly clearly MS does not believe that users should be allowed to store media on a NAS. This "design decsion" leads to some odd behavior at times - for examples windows hot viewer refuses to have thumbnails for pictures on the NAS even if correctly linked to library.
3. W8 homegroups only work with w8 or w7 machines - nothing else. So if I want to have a home group I have to retire the XP machine, the Vista laptop and the NAS
4.Wonderful - so you end up having a load of unnecessary programs open. Just because they are in low usage state does not mean that do not use resources up. The stupid way of closing the program is yet another example of how w8 is very poorly designed for a desktop pc

[crossy]

1. No clock on the metro screen - come on guys even my android phone has this

Ah right, so that's what Microsoft meant when they said that MUI was a "timeless design"...

... sorry couldn't resist that.

Like you, the lack of the start button is not a big deal, heck these days I've been trained by Windows7 and Unity to just use app search anyway. Like you though, it's mainly irritations - stuff that you expect to work one way but doesn't.

Not used it in a while, but I remember others complaining about the lack of multi window support - which if you're trying to write a report with outputs in one window and doc in another is a serious drawback.

[TheAnimus]

TheAnimus

1. There are many apps for it - just none built into the system from the start as it should have been
2. Only two ways of getting NAS folders as part of your library, use a fudge (mk /d for indirection) or have a full network client/server set up. Windows 8 does not index folders natively on NAS so you cannot simply click to link - w8 is supposed to be user friendly clearly MS does not believe that users should be allowed to store media on a NAS. This "design decsion" leads to some odd behavior at times - for examples windows hot viewer refuses to have thumbnails for pictures on the NAS even if correctly linked to library.
3. W8 homegroups only work with w8 or w7 machines - nothing else. So if I want to have a home group I have to retire the XP machine, the Vista laptop and the NAS
4.Wonderful - so you end up having a load of unnecessary programs open. Just because they are in low usage state does not mean that do not use resources up. The stupid way of closing the program is yet another example of how w8 is very poorly designed for a desktop pc

1. Personal preference, for me I don't need it built in, because I never want to know the time when I am opening an app (all I do in the start menu) for every other time in MUI land, it is on the lock screen, or on the charms bar, for me that is enough. If that isn't enough for you, then why not add a free app to do it. I don't think it is a remotely fair out of box complaint?
2. That is your NAS limitation. A couple of problems exist that basically network / removable drive access is inherently transient. Now if you had a windows 8 / s2012 based NAS, you would be fine and dandy! Ultimately you need a NAS which has a concept of indexing, as part of the features of a library is indexed storage. This is why the new SkyDrive client has this bizzaro offline file mode (ie doesn't sync everything locally) but yet locally stores all the metadatas. You want the benefit of Libraries, you need a NAS that supports those benefits, or else you have to hack something horrid.
3. So you hate homegroups because it is only compatible with machines that support homegroups? As a developer you are the person who makes my life hell and pays for my plane fund. I mean seriously. XP support? Do you know how hard that would be......
4. Why not? Your machine isn't using them, they will be freed as soon as they are needed. It reminds me all of the morons who know jack all about OSes, sorry tech journalists, complaining about Vistas memory usage OMG IT IS USING ALL MY RAM!!"!12! Because it should be. Your machine doesn't need those resources, as soon as it does, the tombstoning kicks in. The problem here is you are trying to use it as a traditional windows environment. This is the issue that MS have failed to communicate, it isn't one!

Ah right, so that's what Microsoft meant when they said that MUI was a "timeless design"...

On your multi document support, not sure what you mean, you can run many apps side by side, until 8.1 you were very limited as to what that split ratio was mind (unless you had a second monitor!)

[Saracen]

...

The problem here is you are trying to use it as a traditional windows environment. This is the issue that MS have failed to communicate, it isn't one!

....

The chutzpah of all those users of a Windows environment expecting to use the latest release of a Windows environment as a Windows environment!

Maybe if MS wanted to change the goalposts, they ought to have calked it Doors, or Roofs, or "MS Tablet OS v1". But, I mean, "8" kinda hints at an evolution from "7".

I know. Seeing as they've got smaller devices in mind, they should have called it "Pane v1". Because it is a right pain.

[cjs150]

Animus: The way w8 treats NAS is a major issue for a lot of people, just look at the forums for QNAP, Synology and similar. The concept of setting up a simple s2012 based NAS was dropped by MS when it abandoned WHS, it is not a surprise that no one else has bothered with it.

Personally I believe that this "design decision" was simply a clumsy attempt by MS to make us all use Skydrive - knowing that people will quickly use up the free space allocation and end up needing to pay on a monthly basis.

The simple fact is that a NAS is a mainstream product - not everyone needs one, but lots of people have 100s of GB (or in my case 3TB) of media files. That w8 does not support a mainstream product is not a design decision but a huge flaw.

In many ways you are right that the solution is to have a home server 2012 (or linux equivalent) with network log in for all home computers, laptops, tablets and the NAS. Most people would be unable to handle that though nor would they welcome the expense. Maybe someone with more technical expertise than me could produce a consumer friendly (almost plug and play) cheap server (I have visions of Raspberry pi + Samba 4 and simple installation package)

[shaithis]

Lets knock Microsoft some more because they didn't make the latest version be 100% tailored to me and how I want to use it.....

Because, lets face it, there are not millions of other users with different requirements and expectations.

[TheAnimus]

Animus: The way w8 treats NAS is a major issue for a lot of people, just look at the forums for QNAP, Synology and similar. The concept of setting up a simple s2012 based NAS was dropped by MS when it abandoned WHS, it is not a surprise that no one else has bothered with it.

So QNAP and Synology don't offer advanced indexing services and thus can't be relied upon as a library..... How can that be MS's fault.

Think about the technical solution. You would need a PC to always maintain an index on the NAS. All machines would need to be able to jump to do this role. Yet you have no idea if there is any other machine actively fulfilling this role. So you have to see something be modified, then decide you are the one going to re-index it. Re-index it and save it down. But how do you do that, it's changed already! Crap. So you have to lock the file whilst you re-index it, but you are a laptop which has just dropped wifi, leaving that file locked. Crap!

The solution for indexing a remote store is generally speaking best to have that remote store index itself. The fact these NAS boxes don't is the problem. MS stopped their WHS product because apparently no one was using it. Real shame that.

Personally I believe that this "design decision" was simply a clumsy attempt by MS to make us all use Skydrive - knowing that people will quickly use up the free space allocation and end up needing to pay on a monthly basis.

The simple fact is that a NAS is a mainstream product - not everyone needs one, but lots of people have 100s of GB (or in my case 3TB) of media files. That w8 does not support a mainstream product is not a design decision but a huge flaw.

It does support them just fine. You can store and use them fine. You just can't have reliable indexing of them.

I would suggest, that if you can think of a simple reliable way of doing that, you write the software for it, and sell it. You could probably make a lot of dosh. There are only two hard things in computer science....

In many ways you are right that the solution is to have a home server 2012 (or linux equivalent) with network log in for all home computers, laptops, tablets and the NAS. Most people would be unable to handle that though nor would they welcome the expense. Maybe someone with more technical expertise than me could produce a consumer friendly (almost plug and play) cheap server (I have visions of Raspberry pi + Samba 4 and simple installation package)

So those people would just be using a cloud. It is a tiny area of enthusiasts who need large storage space, with very fast generic indexing, that is network attached locally.

The problem you have is you want to use a 'new' feature (windows 7) but you want it to work on hardware which doesn't support the heavy lifting of that feature.

Why the hell are you complaining about 8.1 for this...... This is a windows 7 downside just as much.

[cjs150]

Animus: "It is a tiny area of enthusiasts who need large storage space"

That would be everyone with a reasonable sized blu-ray collection, a large music collection and usually a lot of digital photos and more than one computer in a house.

The cloud is not the way to go for everyone. Unfortunately w8 seems to have designed by people barely out of short trousers for people who are still in short trousers.