News - New computing curriculum welcomed by IT industry

[HEXUS]

Curriculum ambitiously "focuses on computational thinking", rather than MS Office.

Read more.

[crossy]

As a mainly disinterested observer, (my kids are undergoing the already much changed Scottish high school system), the thing that strikes me is that this is more-or-less what many out side of academia have been asking for for years. According to them (these interested parties) UK education has focussed for too long on making sure kids could fire up Word (to write CV's?), and do Powerpoint slides - which is a pretty narrowly focused view of "IT". No real attempt to get kids interested in the guts of their PC's (the kind of thing that I guess most Hexus readers know well) nor non-Microsoft OS's or applications. The only real exception to that being the Raspberry Pi, which seems to have been more of a success in the hobbyist community than schools.

As to the BCS "endorsement" of this new curriculum - my reaction is "meh". Unless someone's going to correct me, BCS has always struck me as a pretty blinkered, academic-focussed group. Given the notable increase (well anything more than zero has GOT to be a notable increase) in focus on programming I would have been more impressed if a more relevant body - like the Institution of Analysts and Programmers - had given their blessing to the new subject list. And I'll take issue on that score with the headline - the BCS doesn't represent the IT industry afaik.

Question to the Hexus admins, why is "Powerpoint" okay, but the plural ("Powerpoint" with an added "s") updated to "Powe*******" - or have they been in too many bad presentations and now regard mulltiple P'points as a swear word?

[DanceswithUnix]

BCS is on the engineering council, and so can award a charter, your final destination of technical education in this country after getting a degree. So yes they can be a bit stuffy (hence I am in the ieee instead) but they do have quite a lot of relevance.

Edit to add: A quote from the IET would have worked too, but they are more hardware side so probably not the best to get a quote from.

[McEwin]

Oh Powe*******!

[Jonatron]

We'll have a look at the filter. Edit: Powerpoints

On topic, the new curriculum is definitely a step in the right direction. In secondary school, the exam boards will dictate what pupils learn about, so I hope they don't end up making it as boring as it is now. I was so bored, taking screenshots of spreadsheets over and over again. I hope the teachers are up to it, I've had some really thick ICT teachers.

[scaryjim]

NOTE: I am not an admin or a member of hexus staff, so this isn't an official answer, but:

Appears to be some kind of vouchers/discounts website - could be a default block in the forum software or a company that has previously tried to advertise on hexus without going through the proper channels...?

[crossy]

BCS is on the engineering council, and so can award a charter, your final destination of technical education in this country after getting a degree. So yes they can be a bit stuffy (hence I am in the ieee instead) but they do have quite a lot of relevance.

And that's pretty much one of the objections I have with the BCS - they're pretty much setup as a post-uni "sausage machine". Unlike other orgs (like IAP, IEEE, ACM, etc) they don't seem to give ANY credit for operational experience - which for an organisation which claims to be all about standards etc is pretty damned stupid. I've met degree-qualified folks who had great theoretical skills but were otherwise bl**dy useless, conversely I've also had the pleasure of working with non-degree "operators" who definitely were in the "l33t haX0rz" category.

Getting back to the article, I'd be more impressed if industry bodies (note, NOT the BCS) had come out in favour on this new curriculum - heck, even the CBI. And how about a few of the major leaders in IT - IBM, HP, Google, etc - if they come out in favour then I'd be more impressed.

Sorry, I'm just being real negative today.

Then again, in my day (he says putting his zimmer to one side) we didn't get any of that "using a computer" nonsense - heck not even any kind of touch typing course, (i.e. pressing RML 380Z keyboard keys with a hammer!). You were expected to design programs and then code 'em up, and also know about the "workings" of what you were trying to use. Heck, if my physics had been better I could have got onto the bit of course that got out the soldering irons and made circuits to hang off the back of aforementioned 380Z.

[Jonatron]

And that's pretty much one of the objections I have with the BCS - they're pretty much setup as a post-uni "sausage machine". Unlike other orgs (like IAP, IEEE, ACM, etc) they don't seem to give ANY credit for operational experience - which for an organisation which claims to be all about standards etc is pretty damned stupid. I've met degree-qualified folks who had great theoretical skills but were otherwise bl**dy useless, conversely I've also had the pleasure of working with non-degree "operators" who definitely were in the "l33t haX0rz" category.

Getting back to the article, I'd be more impressed if industry bodies (note, NOT the BCS) had come out in favour on this new curriculum - heck, even the CBI. And how about a few of the major leaders in IT - IBM, HP, Google, etc - if they come out in favour then I'd be more impressed.

Sorry, I'm just being real negative today.

Some more information for you:
http://www.computingatschool.org.uk/...ramme-of-study
Google and Microsoft were involved.

[[DW]Cougho]

We'll have a look at the filter. Edit: Powerpoints

On topic, the new curriculum is definitely a step in the right direction. In secondary school, the exam boards will dictate what pupils learn about, so I hope they don't end up making it as boring as it is now. I was so bored, taking screenshots of spreadsheets over and over again. I hope the teachers are up to it, I've had some really thick ICT teachers.

I second this wholeheartedly.

A level ICT was purely Spreadsheets (MS Excel) at AS and Databases (MS Access) at A2. Databases could be useful - but being taught on Access.... especially as you weren't taught anything about SQL, as long as you could use the Query builder (or Query wizard if you were a masochist‎) you were fine.

Then there was the endless modules about the Data Protection Act.......... Zzzz.

The teachers were only a page in front of the class too, but then I suppose IT changes so quickly they were constantly learning themselves.

Everything I need in my (partially) IT focused job I have had to learn myself. Any improvements to IT education gets a thumbs up from me.

[DanceswithUnix]

And that's pretty much one of the objections I have with the BCS - they're pretty much setup as a post-uni "sausage machine". Unlike other orgs (like IAP, IEEE, ACM, etc) they don't seem to give ANY credit for operational experience - which for an organisation which claims to be all about standards etc is pretty damned stupid. I've met degree-qualified folks who had great theoretical skills but were otherwise bl**dy useless, conversely I've also had the pleasure of working with non-degree "operators" who definitely were in the "l33t haX0rz" category.

They work a points system for accreditation, and you get 10 points per relevant year of experience. So it takes longer without a degree, but is quite possible.

Perhaps people without degrees are just less likely to bother with BCS. The magazine is pretty dull

[crossy]

Some more information for you:
http://www.computingatschool.org.uk/...ramme-of-study
Google and Microsoft were involved.

Thanks for that - although (cynic mode to 11) where Microsoft involve to ensure that any replacement wasn't based on LibreOffice rather than their Office suite? That said, they (MS) do have some pretty sweet dev tools from what little I've seen. Although anything that actively hides SQL gets a big thumbs down from me.

They work a points system for accreditation, and you get 10 points per relevant year of experience. So it takes longer without a degree, but is quite possible. Perhaps people without degrees are just less likely to bother with BCS. The magazine is pretty dull

I looked a long time ago and basically if you wanted to do it without a degree then you basically had to have 15+ years experience. Personally I quite fancy joining ACM - some of the special interest groups look good - and I've got a remote chance of getting the work to pay, (they don't recognise the BCS).

Just spoke to eldest kid and their (Scottish) ICT lessons are also of the "more interesting to watch the paint peel" variety. Way to go to ensure that anyone with an interest in computing is seen as a geek/nerd.

[DanceswithUnix]

Does your work recognise the IEEE? Whilst basically American they are quite international so some do, and it is almost worth it just for the magazine. I think I get more from MIEEE than my wife does from MBCS, but then I never was bothered with getting a charter.

My kids are primary school age. In school they seem to learn to cut & paste stuff into powerpoint presentations. I think they learn far more messing around at home, specially in the "Scratch" environment.

When I was at school we had 380Z boxes as well. Ah the fun of programming in BASIC with a small crowd looking over your shoulder, so you make sure you can include the line

FORK = 1 TOMATOES

just to see who freaks out when it actually runs

Other than that, our computer science teacher was a clueless idiot. Shame, as the one before was brilliant both in knowledge and teaching ability, but I believe she got headhunted back into industry. I wonder if that is still the case, are the people who are any good just worth too much in industry to teach?

[Gerrard]

My A-level IT was pretty dull. It was made worse by the fact the school was still building up its IT suite, so we did most of the theory in the first 6 months. The Waterfall Model :shudder:. For the project, most people bought a text book that told you exactly what to do in Access to get an A for it. I tried something a bit more elaborate with their cheap programming language Visual Eiffel and SQL. Having only owned an Amiga until that point, I learnt for more useful things off other people. That and we spent a lot of time on Duke Nukem 3D!

However, I did more appropriate stuff in Design and Technology lessons, especially for GCSE in Systems and Control. Did a little bit CAD and low-level programming (albeit more flow chart type). Also did chip programming in A-level Electronics, so there was still the possibility to do this stuff in other subjects.

[Kumagoro]

Maybe they shouldn't try and cram everything into the one class. There should be an office software applications one, teaching word, excel PowerPoint etc plus Photoshop, sage sort of programs. Plus the should be engineering related ones for those that wasn't them.

Office skills are universal to most jobs,programming and soldering obviously are not.

I don't know how and when these things are taught now but I would have thought that the stuff I was taught in the equivalent of ict at gcse level should be done in junior school now.

[TheAnimus]

Office software applications should just be taught where the skill would be used. Word processing in pretty much everything, Excel in Maths / Sciences etc.

They are just tools, they should be learned in the context of how you'd want to use said tool.

[crossy]

Does your work recognise the IEEE? Whilst basically American they are quite international so some do, and it is almost worth it just for the magazine. I think I get more from MIEEE than my wife does from MBCS, but then I never was bothered with getting a charter.

Yankee company so yes, IEEE (and ACM) are recognised as worthwhile. Then again, my previous employer (UK-based engineering company) also recognised MIEEE as something worth having. Maybe I need to go with begging bowl in hand to my boss for an IEEE membership?

Other than that, our computer science teacher was a clueless idiot. Shame, as the one before was brilliant both in knowledge and teaching ability, but I believe she got headhunted back into industry. I wonder if that is still the case, are the people who are any good just worth too much in industry to teach?

Same up here. And some of the "information" passed on is a bit on the dodgy side - e.g. no need to practice caution when browsing the web since your Windows PC's antivirus will squash any/all nasties you might encounter.