Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Adding a leap second this year is expected to cause Internet woe

  1. #1
    HEXUS.admin
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    31,709
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    2,073 times in 719 posts

    Adding a leap second this year is expected to cause Internet woe

    IER announced that it is adding a second to the clock on June 30, 2015.
    Read more.

  2. #2
    ZaO
    Guest

    Re: Adding a leap second this year is expected to cause Internet woe

    The linked article says "Nowadays, however, adding a leap second—which is scheduled to occur at 23:59:59 on June 30 (the halfway point of the year)—can cause computer systems to become confused when their clock shows 60 seconds, rather than rolling over after 59—and we all know what that generally means—outages. Other computers will show the 59th second for two seconds in a row, which can also cause problems." Instead, why not just set the clock back by 1 second once we're a a couple seconds into July? You know, like we do with daylight savings when we're an hour in or whatever? Websites seem to deal with that ok don't they? I don't get why this is a big deal...

  3. #3
    Super Nerd
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Cambridge
    Posts
    1,785
    Thanks
    22
    Thanked
    105 times in 72 posts

    Re: Adding a leap second this year is expected to cause Internet woe

    Quote Originally Posted by ZaO View Post
    The linked article says "Nowadays, however, adding a leap second—which is scheduled to occur at 23:59:59 on June 30 (the halfway point of the year)—can cause computer systems to become confused when their clock shows 60 seconds, rather than rolling over after 59—and we all know what that generally means—outages. Other computers will show the 59th second for two seconds in a row, which can also cause problems." Instead, why not just set the clock back by 1 second once we're a a couple seconds into July? You know, like we do with daylight savings when we're an hour in or whatever? Websites seem to deal with that ok don't they? I don't get why this is a big deal...
    Setting the clock back a second is what causes it to show 59 for 2s, which to some software might be confusing, say an action requires something to happen for 10s between 50-59 secs, stopping when it flips to 00, when there is a leap second that task runs for 11 seconds.

  4. #4
    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    17,168
    Thanks
    803
    Thanked
    2,152 times in 1,408 posts

    Re: Adding a leap second this year is expected to cause Internet woe

    There are two kinds of problems, the COBOL style problem, and the duration problem.

    The COBOL one, only effects really dumb programmers, so brace yourselves if you've got JS or PHP. Here someone treats a date, not as a number, but as a series of symbols (called a 'string' as they are symbols strung together). They then trigger something happening when the last 2 symbols equal something else. This is bad. Those responsible should be shot and their children shot.

    You have the duration one, which is a bit more tricky, most systems measure time in the number of seconds (or fractions of a second) elapsed since a specific point in time (called an epoch). This is just a big number, computers like big numbers, and this of course doesn't change, as it's still 100 seconds ellapsed, regardless if you show 59 or 60, because the number ellapsed is obviously true.

    However, sometimes people will calculate a duration, durations mean these seconds ellapsed have to be mapped to the time as we know it. If ever you needed any kind of proof that god isn't real, work with date and time, so one person might have the leap second in their lib, someone else, not. Will one second matter in this case? For most things, no. For things that really care about one second, they use time since an epoch anyway.
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

  5. #5
    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    In the middle of a core dump
    Posts
    13,009
    Thanks
    781
    Thanked
    1,568 times in 1,325 posts
    • DanceswithUnix's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus X470-PRO
      • CPU:
      • 5900X
      • Memory:
      • 32GB 3200MHz ECC
      • Storage:
      • 2TB Linux, 2TB Games (Win 10)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix RX Vega 56
      • PSU:
      • 650W Corsair TX
      • Case:
      • Antec 300
      • Operating System:
      • Fedora 39 + Win 10 Pro 64 (yuk)
      • Monitor(s):
      • Benq XL2730Z 1440p + Iiyama 27" 1440p
      • Internet:
      • Zen 900Mb/900Mb (CityFibre FttP)

    Re: Adding a leap second this year is expected to cause Internet woe

    Quote Originally Posted by kingpotnoodle View Post
    Setting the clock back a second is what causes it to show 59 for 2s, which to some software might be confusing, say an action requires something to happen for 10s between 50-59 secs, stopping when it flips to 00, when there is a leap second that task runs for 11 seconds.
    Timing a duration you would use a monotonic clock not wall clock time, or at least you should. And there lies the problem, summer time hits us twice a year, leap seconds are not common enough to be well tested against.

    I would have thought that most modern code runs on virtual machines where the clocks are so wonky that an extra second turning up would be casually accepted.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    431
    Thanks
    20
    Thanked
    33 times in 27 posts
    • Jace007's system
      • CPU:
      • Intel i7 7700k
      • Memory:
      • 16GB
      • Storage:
      • 500GB SSD
      • Graphics card(s):
      • nVidia 1080
      • PSU:
      • EVGA 750w
      • Operating System:
      • WinLOW

    Re: Adding a leap second this year is expected to cause Internet woe

    There will be an implosion, reality will cease to exist and be destroyed by the software erratum of 0 !!!

    Listening to Bob marley until the End of...

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    342
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    27 times in 23 posts

    Re: Adding a leap second this year is expected to cause Internet woe


  8. #8
    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Looking down & checking on swearing
    Posts
    19,378
    Thanks
    2,892
    Thanked
    3,403 times in 2,693 posts

    Re: Adding a leap second this year is expected to cause Internet woe

    It isn't the first time a leap second has been added, neither will it be the last. For the majority of systems it won't make any difference, and for those systems that synchronise over the net it won't matter at all, systems will sync real time plus whatever latency is there anyway. Those that synchronise over GPS will not be affected.

    Where it would matter is in systems like GPS satellites, and that will be covered anyway, as will organisations that operate time standard clocks.

    Personally, I shall enjoy my extra second of sleep!
    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
    (")_(")

    Been helped or just 'Like' a post? Use the Thanks button!
    My broadband speed - 750 Meganibbles/minute

  9. #9
    Anthropomorphic Personification shaithis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    The Last Aerie
    Posts
    10,857
    Thanks
    645
    Thanked
    872 times in 736 posts
    • shaithis's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus P8Z77 WS
      • CPU:
      • i7 3770k @ 4.5GHz
      • Memory:
      • 32GB HyperX 1866
      • Storage:
      • Lots!
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire Fury X
      • PSU:
      • Corsair HX850
      • Case:
      • Corsair 600T (White)
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 x64
      • Monitor(s):
      • 2 x Dell 3007
      • Internet:
      • Zen 80Mb Fibre

    Re: Adding a leap second this year is expected to cause Internet woe

    We survived Y2K, I think we will survive this.
    Main PC: Asus Rampage IV Extreme / 3960X@4.5GHz / Antec H1200 Pro / 32GB DDR3-1866 Quad Channel / Sapphire Fury X / Areca 1680 / 850W EVGA SuperNOVA Gold 2 / Corsair 600T / 2x Dell 3007 / 4 x 250GB SSD + 2 x 80GB SSD / 4 x 1TB HDD (RAID 10) / Windows 10 Pro, Yosemite & Ubuntu
    HTPC: AsRock Z77 Pro 4 / 3770K@4.2GHz / 24GB / GTX 1080 / SST-LC20 / Antec TP-550 / Hisense 65k5510 4K TV / HTC Vive / 2 x 240GB SSD + 12TB HDD Space / Race Seat / Logitech G29 / Win 10 Pro
    HTPC2: Asus AM1I-A / 5150 / 4GB / Corsair Force 3 240GB / Silverstone SST-ML05B + ST30SF / Samsung UE60H6200 TV / Windows 10 Pro
    Spare/Loaner: Gigabyte EX58-UD5 / i950 / 12GB / HD7870 / Corsair 300R / Silverpower 700W modular
    NAS 1: HP N40L / 12GB ECC RAM / 2 x 3TB Arrays || NAS 2: Dell PowerEdge T110 II / 24GB ECC RAM / 2 x 3TB Hybrid arrays || Network:Buffalo WZR-1166DHP w/DD-WRT + HP ProCurve 1800-24G
    Laptop: Dell Precision 5510 Printer: HP CP1515n || Phone: Huawei P30 || Other: Samsung Galaxy Tab 4 Pro 10.1 CM14 / Playstation 4 + G29 + 2TB Hybrid drive

  10. #10
    ZaO
    Guest

    Re: Adding a leap second this year is expected to cause Internet woe

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    It isn't the first time a leap second has been added, neither will it be the last. For the majority of systems it won't make any difference, and for those systems that synchronise over the net it won't matter at all, systems will sync real time plus whatever latency is there anyway. Those that synchronise over GPS will not be affected.

    Where it would matter is in systems like GPS satellites, and that will be covered anyway, as will organisations that operate time standard clocks.

    Personally, I shall enjoy my extra second of sleep!
    Aren't satellites experiencing time differently anyway? Or are they not quite far enough out for that?

    Some interesting posts here. But I bet the majority of us won't notice anything at all. My motherboard seems to keep falling behind with the time, then catching back up when it syncs with ms servers. It's nothing more than annoying. It's not messing with any programs as far as I can tell. But I do now understand that it could be messing with some computers/programs. I suppose it might cause some big problems for computers running time precise experiments or something..

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •