AMD eyes notebook market expansion with new Carrizo APUs

[HEXUS]

Its most advanced APU yet will battle Intel in the $400-$700 notebook segment.

Read more.

[DanceswithUnix]

Perhaps someone can build something to tempt me to upgrade from my old 11.6" E350 "netbook" given these APUs all fit in the same sort of thermal envelope. Fingers crossed.

BTW, "Hewlett Package" on the 4th page, I was wondering if that was a snub but I presume it is an autocorrect

[RyanM]

BTW, "Hewlett Package" on the 4th page, I was wondering if that was a snub but I presume it is an autocorrect

Thanks for spotting, fixed.

[kalniel]

There is no simple reason as to why AMD has lost ground in the notebook market but a large part of this likely boils down to the type of notebooks that ship with AMD hardware. Ultimately, crucial design decisions rest on notebook vendors, they must ship sensible hardware configurations and deliver desirable and stylish devices that put forth a well-rounded user experience, particularly when edging towards that $700 upper price limit.

Yet AMD, unlike Intel with its Ultrabook program, doesn't mandate minimum system configurations to its notebook vendors for specific products which makes it easy for them to release meagre notebook experiences to consumers. An example would be when vendors fail to ship AMD A10 APUs with SSDs or high-resolution displays and use a bulky chassis, thus giving the impression to consumers of a slow and low-quality device which they then go on to associate with AMD technology.

Does this suggestion come from Hexus, or AMD? I'm interested how that assertion was tested (ie, is it backed up by robust user feedback?). I would have thought that there's a more logical explanation.

[RyanM]

Does this suggestion come from Hexus, or AMD? I'm interested how that assertion was tested (ie, is it backed up by robust user feedback?). I would have thought that there's a more logical explanation.

An assertion made by the writer (myself) informed from discussions with AMD and some brief market analysis for the UK and the EU based on major online (r)etailers and the type of AMD laptops they stock.

I'd be interested to hear what you think the more logical explanation is.

[kalniel]

I'd be interested to hear what you think the more logical explanation is.

Simply that Intel have historically made a better laptop chip in recent times.

As a result, AMD have to drop prices to compete, which means you're more likely (proportionally) to find an AMD chip in budget cases. AFAIK, it's only the ultrabook range that have specified hardware, there are many other laptops that aren't ultrabooks.

Don't forget, AMD also tried to mandate specific constraints with their 'Ultrathin' line, so surely that should have lead to the same positive effect that you're alluding to.

[Noxvayl]

Before I forget, I found a grammatical error on page 2: "... design that will we discuss in the technology deep dive."

Really good article though, an interesting read

[kalniel]

Really good article though, an interesting read

Yup, I second that! One of the best articles recently.

[cheesemp]

As someone with a previous gen AMD APU + GPU budget (£300) laptop i'd be interested to know how it compares. My laptops not bad for games considering the price but it acts like a mini hair dryer and is unusable off a cooling pad. Be interesting to know if this next gen is better at thermal management.

[nitro912gr]

The problem is availability of AMD powered devices, I was looking for a cheap laptop for a friend and wanted to get something that have some power in graphics side but all I could find was HP laptops which I will never again consider since they are in my eyes a 50/50 to stop working after the end of warranty (I can't believe that 4 people including me had that bad luck to have their HP laptops fail after the warranty expired...).

In the end we got a lenovo with E1-6010 but I could love to find something at the A4 range from a trusted OEM.

[RyanM]

Simply that Intel have historically made a better laptop chip in recent times.

As a result, AMD have to drop prices to compete, which means you're more likely (proportionally) to find an AMD chip in budget cases. AFAIK, it's only the ultrabook range that have specified hardware, there are many other laptops that aren't ultrabooks.

Don't forget, AMD also tried to mandate specific constraints with their 'Ultrathin' line, so surely that should have lead to the same positive effect that you're alluding to.

You do make valid points, Intel does make better chips on the whole, particularly at the upper end of the market, and the AMD chips that are sold tend to be the lower cost ones and as such bring low quality laptop devices.

However, this is what I find most interesting about this situation, there's a total neglect for those mid-range AMD laptop parts and I'm not quite sure why. I'll try and get some insight from AMD or its notebook partners as to the reasons behind this.

Remember the 35W FX-7600P? we reviewed it here - http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/70...kaveri/?page=3 , I can't find more than a single laptop that has sold with that chip, the same goes for the 19W FX-7500. They both seemed like decent mainstream parts and if the A10 parts can arrive in £300-350 notebooks why can't these slightly faster FX parts arrive in £450-500 notebooks with 1080p panels and SSHDs? (this is the closest I could find - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-15-6-.../dp/B00O8SDRKK )

It's difficult to make a balanced assessment of AMD and Intel in the mainstream notebook market when AMD laptops are so rare, there needs to be more models and variations from notebook vendors.

[scaryjim]

There does seem to be a reluctance on the part of laptop manufacturers to use the top-end AMD parts. That said, there are now three AMD laptops in regular use in our household, covering kabini, trinity and kaveri (the aforementioned FX-7600, in dual graphics configuration with an R5-M230).

I think it's true to say that AMD laptops generally run hotter than Intel laptops, although whether that's down to the chips themselves or the cooling system they're attached to is debateable. The Kaveri laptop actually appears to be a significant improvement in that regard despite having a dGPU to cool too.

As to 1080p screens and SSDs, these are something that all notebooks could do with having lower in the range, not just AMD ones. AFAIK the tech isn't that expensive (there are sub £200 tablets with 1080p+ screens, after all), so I'm flummoxed as to why we're meant to put up with nasty 1366x768 screens right up to £500 laptops... there's no excuse for that.

[sykobee]

In recent years, AMD's sub-35W mobile offerings have been rather poor, once in that mobile setting, because their power use has been too high, or more accurately, they have been crap at saving power.

Carrizo, on paper, seems to fix this situation. This is a major step forward for AMD in the mobile area. Sure, Excavator as a CPU-core probably still can't compete with Haswell/Broadwell, but in a laptop that is less important.

I would like a 11.6"-13" 15W Carrizo netbook with a 900p/1080p screen. It comes down to the pricing sadly, that old E-350 was about £40 to the OEM, I don't see Carrizo being sold to OEMs for under £100. OTOH 28nm is probably a lot cheaper than it used to be due to higher yields, equipment cost amortization, etc...

[abaxas]

A well build small 12 inch 1388x768 laptop that can play most modern games at 30fps please.

Surely, this is possible at ~400 quid.

[RyanM]

It comes down to the pricing sadly, that old E-350 was about £40 to the OEM, I don't see Carrizo being sold to OEMs for under £100. OTOH 28nm is probably a lot cheaper than it used to be due to higher yields, equipment cost amortization, etc...

Well last year's flagship, the FX-7600P, founds its way into laptops costing around £500~600. The FX-7600P was a desktop part cut down to mobile so probably not as cost effective as it should have been.

Since the FX-8800P is a mobile-only part, built from a piece of silicon the same size as the FX-7600P, you'd imagine that pricing will be similar - e.g. the flagship Carrizo will ship in £500-£600 notebooks meaning the chip itself will be a decent chunk of that. Interesting is that the chipset is now on-die so AMD doesn't sell the chipset to notebook vendors separately, I imagine that bumps the price of the chip up a little but keeps overall costs similar. AMD never released pricing of the FX-7600P so we can't speculate the FX-8800P from that but I think £100 doesn't seem too far off the mark, at launch I'd be more inclined to say £125.

Actually I found an interesting quote to ponder from Anandtech about previous gen Kaveri FX-7600P that summarises the AMD notebook situation quite well.

"when you're saving $50-$100 by using an AMD APU instead of an Intel CPU, the mindset often becomes, "Where else can we save money?" The result is a race to the bottom"

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8119/a...-kaveri-apus/5

[DanceswithUnix]

My dad asked in PC World (yeah, I know but stick with me here) for a laptop capable of running World of Warcraft for when my kids stay there. They sold him something with an AMD APU as the minimum that would do the job. So they do exist, they do get recommended, *but* IME most people when asked what sort of PC they want say "laptop" even if a small desktop would be more suitable, and they say "we don't play games" despite the fact that it will have The Simms installed on it within a month

I can't see better graphics as a draw for the average user, as well as it being irrelevant to anyone buying with a discrete card.