Steam user Windows 10 market share closes in on 50 per cent

[HEXUS]

And Microsoft confirms Kaby Lake and Zen will only get fully supported in Windows 10.

Read more.

[Dashers]

Good bit of FUD - not supporting new CPUs on old OSes. Intel aren't about to release a processor that isn't as x86 compliant as the last goodness knows how many generations. They add new instructions but it's going to be a long time before a new architecture drops a feature that is critical for Windows to run.

They're effectively suggesting you must run Windows 10 if you want a new CPU, rubbish.

Although DirectX 12 is only available on 10, which is a good enough reason to (plan to) upgrade if you're a gamer.

[DanceswithUnix]

Although DirectX 12 is only available on 10, which is a good enough reason to (plan to) upgrade if you're a gamer.

More a case of level of support. Before long every peripheral and software package will be targeting W10 primarily and vague attempts to support anything older if they even bother at all. Windows is a herd ecosystem, lord help the stragglers.

Really, Windows is a lot of grief for a game launcher. Actually it isn't even that is it, it is a Steam/Battle.net/gog host so more of a game launcher launcher.

[Irien]

It is more likely to be related to the supporting motherboard/chipset, or graphics core. For example, try installing Win7 on a Skylake board and you'll have trouble with USB because everything runs through XHCI (typically associated with USB3), even the USB2!

Whilst there are workarounds, I believe Intel have stopped (or are stopping) supplying graphics drivers for older OSs too, so Kaby Lake may only have GPU drivers for Win10 WDDM 2.0. They did this before with XP/Vista etc.

Note - I think this attitude is really poor (it should be customer choice, not dictated by MS/Intel/AMD) but there's really little that anyone can do. For what it is worth, it's been a huge inconvenience to me personally because I still run a Windows Media Centre box for TV. With no WMC in Win10, that effectively blocks any upgrade path. For proper HEVC support/HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 on iGPU, you'll want Kaby Lake, which creates a catch-22. I figure I'll just add a graphics card for that, but still, it creates a real problem.

[Corky34]

Good bit of FUD - not supporting new CPUs on old OSes. Intel aren't about to release a processor that isn't as x86 compliant as the last goodness knows how many generations. They add new instructions but it's going to be a long time before a new architecture drops a feature that is critical for Windows to run.

I'm going to take a guess that you missed the word "full" as no one is saying new processor won't run x86 instructions, however there's certainly unanswered questions over what other features in the new CPU's may not work on previous versions of Windows, and with both major CPU manufactures saying they're not going to release drivers for anything other than Windows 10 it's a wait and see moment, i wouldn't call that FUD, I'd call it prudence.

[DanceswithUnix]

That's a lot of 1070 cards Nvidia have sold!

[Percy1983]

It is more likely to be related to the supporting motherboard/chipset, or graphics core. For example, try installing Win7 on a Skylake board and you'll have trouble with USB because everything runs through XHCI (typically associated with USB3), even the USB2!

Whilst there are workarounds, I believe Intel have stopped (or are stopping) supplying graphics drivers for older OSs too, so Kaby Lake may only have GPU drivers for Win10 WDDM 2.0. They did this before with XP/Vista etc.

Note - I think this attitude is really poor (it should be customer choice, not dictated by MS/Intel/AMD) but there's really little that anyone can do. For what it is worth, it's been a huge inconvenience to me personally because I still run a Windows Media Centre box for TV. With no WMC in Win10, that effectively blocks any upgrade path. For proper HEVC support/HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 on iGPU, you'll want Kaby Lake, which creates a catch-22. I figure I'll just add a graphics card for that, but still, it creates a real problem.

I am thinking of a new AMD APU for mine (currently a A8-7600) as I have A UHD and can't feed it UHD from my HTPC.

With that I may just get a graphics card if either team releases a budget card with hdmi2.0 and the relevant decoders.

As for the main PC the i5-3570k will be making way for Zen or Kaby Lake (fingers crossed for Zen) but that is already happily rocking windows 10, will just see about reactivating after board/processor/ram swap (will guess many will be on the same path).

[Corky34]

That's a lot of 1070 cards Nvidia have sold!

What's odd, at least to me it is, is how the Steam hardware survey shows nothing for AMD's new cards.

[scaryjim]

... I may just get a graphics card if either team releases a budget card with hdmi2.0 and the relevant decoders. ...

You mean like the RX 460...?

[Percy1983]

You mean like the RX 460...?

Unfortunately not, I am thinking less than £70 and needs to be low profile.

As mentioned the next APUs might fit the bill if CPU performance is reasonable jump.

[Dashers]

I'm going to take a guess that you missed the word "full" as no one is saying new processor won't run x86 instructions, however there's certainly unanswered questions over what other features in the new CPU's may not work on previous versions of Windows, and with both major CPU manufactures saying they're not going to release drivers for anything other than Windows 10 it's a wait and see moment, i wouldn't call that FUD, I'd call it prudence.

That's not how CPUs work. The x86 instruction set is common with other instructions sets on various different CPUs., Intel often release extended instruction sets which perform complex tasks quicker. AMD on the other hand will have similar extensions but not necessarily the same - it's down to the implementer to decide whether those instructions (if available should be used), but they cannot rely on them being there. There are a few common extra instructions that all x86 CPU manufacturers have implemented, but these equally these aren't going to be removed from new CPUs.

It is more likely to be related to the supporting motherboard/chipset, or graphics core. For example, try installing Win7 on a Skylake board and you'll have trouble with USB because everything runs through XHCI (typically associated with USB3), even the USB2!

Yes, this is far more likely to be the case, but that's not CPU, that is chipset and really unrelated. Current I don't think anybody else releases Intel chipsets, but it was quite common to buy ones from Via and Nvidia for some time.

These interface drivers are supplied by the chipset manufacturer - what would be more of a concern is whether Intel decided they weren't going to support older versions of Windows.

Of course there are always new features being added to computers and support will ultimately drop out, and I'm the first to encourage people to adopt the latest - but to suggest that your Kaby Lake CPU won't work with Windows 7 is nothing short of FUD.

[DanceswithUnix]

What's odd, at least to me it is, is how the Steam hardware survey shows nothing for AMD's new cards.

Yeah, that is really odd.

They seem to turn up in the DX10 capable table (DX12 cards are DX10 capable so that looks to be the biggest sample and a superset of the other tables): http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/

The numbers seem very low, RX 480 shows half the sales of the GTX 1060. Stark if there is any truth here:

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070    -  -       0.05%  0.33%   0.71%   +0.38%
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080    -  0.00%   0.09%  0.26%   0.44%   +0.18%
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060    -  -       -      0.03%   0.24%   +0.21%
AMD Radeon RX 480          -  -       0.00%  0.06%   0.12%   +0.06%
AMD Radeon RX 460          -  -       -      -       0.01%   +0.01%
AMD Radeon RX 470          -  -       -      -       0.01%   +0.01%

[DanceswithUnix]

Of course there are always new features being added to computers and support will ultimately drop out, and I'm the first to encourage people to adopt the latest - but to suggest that your Kaby Lake CPU won't work with Windows 7 is nothing short of FUD.

Well you probably wouldn't get the best out of it. As CPUs tend towards becoming system on chip devices, things are now integrated onto the CPU die that in the 386 era weren't even integrated onto the motherboard (for those old enough to remember plug in IDE/multi IO cards).

[Corky34]

That's not how CPUs work. The x86 instruction set is common with other instructions sets on various different CPUs., Intel often release extended instruction sets which perform complex tasks quicker. AMD on the other hand will have similar extensions but not necessarily the same - it's down to the implementer to decide whether those instructions (if available should be used), but they cannot rely on them being there. There are a few common extra instructions that all x86 CPU manufacturers have implemented, but these equally these aren't going to be removed from new CPUs.

Sorry you've lost me, didn't i say "no one is saying new processor won't run x86 instructions" ?

Maybe you've confused my use of the term "features" to mean features related to the x86 instructions, if so that would be incorrect as those would be extensions, features on the other hand would be things like the IGPU, the various management (thermal, voltage, clock) features, you know everything not an extenstion to the x86/x64 instruction set.

Yeah, that is really odd.

They seem to turn up in the DX10 capable table (DX12 cards are DX10 capable so that looks to be the biggest sample and a superset of the other tables): http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/

The numbers seem very low, RX 480 shows half the sales of the GTX 1060. Stark if there is any truth here:

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070    -  -       0.05%  0.33%   0.71%   +0.38%
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080    -  0.00%   0.09%  0.26%   0.44%   +0.18%
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060    -  -       -      0.03%   0.24%   +0.21%
AMD Radeon RX 480          -  -       0.00%  0.06%   0.12%   +0.06%
AMD Radeon RX 460          -  -       -      -       0.01%   +0.01%
AMD Radeon RX 470          -  -       -      -       0.01%   +0.01%

Well spotted, does seem rather stark. I've never put much faith in Steams approach to statistic TBH, maybe I'm wrong and maybe they've change but AFAIK they gather stats at random and aggregate to user numbers, theoretical it would gather your, mine, everyone's, data once every twelve months or something like that.

[DanceswithUnix]

Well spotted, does seem rather stark. I've never put much faith in Steams approach to statistic TBH, maybe I'm wrong and maybe they've change but AFAIK they gather stats at random and aggregate to user numbers, theoretical it would gather your, mine, everyone's, data once every twelve months or something like that.

Well I haven't been sampled for years, so if they used my last known stats rather than extrapolating from other people they would probably have me down as an Phenom II and a GTX 460 despite me having rather moved on

[QuorTek]

Dunno it is the future.. unfortunately you need an O/S upgrade to keep up with all the new stuff... XP & 2K was great back in the day... then windows 7... and now windows 10... there is no point in dwelling in the past as it is when the future lie ahead of us.. expecting people to make stuff insane backwards compatible with something that is more than 10 years old just seem stupid, but it does not mean that the stuff can not run on it, just not efficient.. if booting up at all.

Also people can just go Linux as an alternative or buy a Mac.

So you have to buy a new OS per 5-10 years, not a bad thing.

the big mess ups was stuff like windowsME, Vista, windows 8-