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Thread: UK iPhone news..

  1. #65
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    Hmm, I'm missing the point because I speculate about the sort of people it may appeal to and you list examples of those it doesn't? Need I point out that Apple hasn't embarked on any official marketing for the device outside of the US yet? Maybe after the thing's been shown on TV a few times the perception of the people you mentioned will change, but I have to say my anecdotal observations say quite the opposite. My mum mentioned it unprompted recently, and I know several people at my employer who have stated they want one once it's released.

    Battery life must be a concern, but what's the point of putting Safari/YouTube/Google Maps onto a phone if you're only going to give it a slow GPRS/EDGE connection?
    It also has WiFi. I'm guessing the assumption was that GPRS would be good enough for those times when you're not in WiFi range.

    Still, I can read enough between the lines from the comments above that I can tell people resent that Apple is perceived as cool when their products don't appeal to them, and so they dismiss those who do like them as posers or brand victims. It's okay to admit you prefer specific features to an overall user experience, that's how technologically aware people often work. It's also the opposite of how most consumers' minds operate, as they tend to want something that 'just works'.

    it remains to be seen whether or not it becomes a sustainable revenues tream, especially as the other manufacturers will now be lining up their "iPhone killer" offerings.
    I'll take that bet. £100 says the iPhone will be the best-selling mobile phone in Europe in 2008.

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    Theoretical Element Spud1's Avatar
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    OK, i'll not argue any further since you clearly won't give in Fact remains that using any of the streaming multimedia or relativly high bandwidth features such as music streaming/googlemaps/youtube will be useless over GPRS, which is why we're saying it will be a problem.

    Believe what you want though, its (supposed to be anyway) a free country lol you are of course entitled to your opinion

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    I'm not sure, but maybe I missed your point. Was it that those apps will be crap over GPRS? If so, I agree. If the point was that the phone is fatally flawed because of that (as I'm sure one other person said), then I disagree.

    On the latter I'm prepared to put my money where my mouth is

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    dont apple make 2x profit on every phone they sell? madness - but good buisness. I want one - but there stupidly expensive , and have you heard about the iphone nano thats out summer next year, that maybe a cheaper alternative for many.

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    I just saw this and was instantly reminded of this thread

    By the way, iamtheoneneo; there is only speculation regarding an 'iPhone nano', not any official announcements. The speculation came from an investment researcher who had been examining Apple's patents, but the truth is Apple patents a lot of things that never turn up in products and it's just as feasible the patent in question was for a prototype interface that was dropped in favour of the one they've actually chosen. It also doesn't make much sense for Apple to make a cut-down version of the iPhone just yet; it's too soon, and the primary advantage it has over the competition is in terms of interface. Without the slick interface, an iPhone nano wouldn't be such a compelling product.

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    Junior Senior Member Aaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapowaz View Post
    It also has WiFi. I'm guessing the assumption was that GPRS would be good enough for those times when you're not in WiFi range.
    WiFi will kill the battery a lot faster than 3G. It's also very hard to find free wireless hotspots, where-as 3G covers 70%+ of the population.

    Still, I can read enough between the lines from the comments above that I can tell people resent that Apple is perceived as cool when their products don't appeal to them, and so they dismiss those who do like them as posers or brand victims. It's okay to admit you prefer specific features to an overall user experience, that's how technologically aware people often work. It's also the opposite of how most consumers' minds operate, as they tend to want something that 'just works'.
    I'm on my third iPod and bought my first one before iTunes was even released for Windows. I really like iTunes too (even if it is a resource hog on Windows).

    However, most people buy iPods based on brand strength and marketing. They're good devices that work well but, once something becomes fashionable, it isn't features or usability that sells the product. Just look at how horrible the RAZR UI is and how well that phone sold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kapowaz View Post
    Still, I can read enough between the lines from the comments above that I can tell people resent that Apple is perceived as cool when their products don't appeal to them, and so they dismiss those who do like them as posers or brand victims. It's okay to admit you prefer specific features to an overall user experience, that's how technologically aware people often work. It's also the opposite of how most consumers' minds operate, as they tend to want something that 'just works'.
    Personally... I have an iPod (3G) and a Powerbook. I bought them because they were genuinely the best on offer at the time. (The iPod wasn't really widely known when I bought mine and a fairly new concept).

    I still think Mac computers are fantastic, and I hope they keep at it and don't give up.

    However there are now better players than the iPod (do people really enjoy having to install third party software to get tunes off the damn thing?) and better phones than the iPhone - it is for this reason that those who buy them are either not checking out the competition, or putting appearance before functionality.

    Yes, putting appearance before functionality is posing - though is that really such a dirty word? I do prefer going for functionality myself (with *some* basis of appearance - if two products do the same thing and one looks better than the other, it doesn't take much to figure out which I'd go for). But people do it with cars and all sorts of things.

    That's their choice, all I'm saying personally is that Apple are currently aiming at the market who put appearance *way* over personality. Posers, trend/label whores, call them what you will The only thing I will resent, is if they ditch Macs for it. Until then they can do what they like!

    P.S. nice satirical review! : http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone
    Last edited by Cloudane; 24-07-2007 at 02:36 PM.

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    Straying a little off-topic here, but (earnestly), what players are there out there that are superior to the iPod? I'd be at least interested in taking a look. For me the interface is the one feature that no other player can match even if technically it might be better in other regards (like, say, wifi).

    Heh, Maddox is a funny guy but I think he took making that page a bit too seriously. Unless him being able to restart his webserver from his phone was actually a satirical swipe at unix geeks who do get excited about being able to do that...

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    Sandisk Sansa >>>>>> Ipod Nano

    Creative Zen >>>>>> Ipod Video

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    Yep, the Creative Zen was going to be my example too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudane View Post
    Yep, the Creative Zen was going to be my example too.
    Thats very subjective though - personally I *hate* the looks of the Creative Zen, and have no need for its wider format support..the old silver rectangular Zen was nice, and at the time had better looks than the 1/2/3G iPods, but when Creative started to change the designs it went downhill.

    Most people go on about audio quality being one of the big reasons to go for other players (in addition to the format 'issues'), but IMO the difference is negligable. 99.9% of people listening to music on the go are listening to compressed music, which is never going to sound good anyway, so it doesn't *really* matter. In fact I would challange anyone to be able to tell the difference between the same MP3 played using the same earphones on iPod, Zune, Zen or IRiver in a blind test. Even those players that can cope with FLAC and the like don't really sound much better as your still playing the FLAC files on a device the size of a laptop hard disc, into which you just can't get decent quality audio components, especially at around a £200 price point.

    With portable music players I really think its down to finding one that has looks you like which can play the music in a format you like (MP3 for the majority of people out there) at an affordable price point- and like it or not an iPod fits this profile for most people out there. Just because an iPod is fashionable doesn't make it bad

    this is the last Zen I liked, the 'nomad jukebox zen extra'. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...eative_zen.jpg
    If apple hand't released the 4G iPod I would have bought one of these - its what I was originally saving up for

    edit: and just to reply to the quip about not being able to get music off the iPod without 3rd party software - well why is that a problem? The iPod is NOT designed as a portable hard drive, its designed as a portble hard disc based music player, which may have extra features like video and pictures (both of which are pointless IMO but thats another discussion ), and for that purpose it works very well.
    Last edited by Spud1; 25-07-2007 at 12:28 AM.

  12. #76
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    Creative have been releasing music players called 'zen' for years. I almost bought one before I tried an iPod (3rd generation, back in 2003). Which specific model would you say is best now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spud1 View Post
    With portable music players I really think its down to finding one that has looks you like which can play the music in a format you like (MP3 for the majority of people out there) at an affordable price point- and like it or not an iPod fits this profile for most people out there. Just because an iPod is fashionable doesn't make it bad
    For me, the things that I care most about are those that impact me on my daily usage of a portable media player. That is, ability to quickly access an album, quickly access a song or playlist. Those sort of things. Battery life is important too, but I'm rarely so far from home that the lifespan of the battery is an issue. Disk space? Well, that's a moot point. A difference of ~10GB on a 50GB+ media player at around the same pricepoint isn't going to cause me to sweat.

    Ultimately, the user experience is what matters most to me. I've not tried any rival player for a while, but those that I did had a laughably poor interface. Why? Well, with the jog wheel I can do everything with a single thumb. Every other interface I've tried requires two fingers/thumbs. When I'm jogging up the road to catch the bus with one hand holding my backpack on my shoulder, I can't stop to use both hands to choose a song. Sadly, none of the other competitors can create a jogwheel themselves due to patent restrictions. Even more sadly, none of them have had the imagination to come up with something better, which I suspect Apple have done with the interface on the iPhone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spud1 View Post
    Thats very subjective though - personally I *hate* the looks of the Creative Zen, and have no need for its wider format support..the old silver rectangular Zen was nice, and at the time had better looks than the 1/2/3G iPods, but when Creative started to change the designs it went downhill.
    But you just proved my point - technically speaking the Zen is a better player. However, if you're particularly concerned about looks, yes the iPod wins.

    I'm not saying it's bad to prefer something because it looks better though... within reason... I'm just saying that the iPod - although great technology - is still more of a fashion accessory than a cutting edge piece of tech - it's a close call I admit, but with the iPhone that gap is widening.

    edit: and just to reply to the quip about not being able to get music off the iPod without 3rd party software - well why is that a problem? The iPod is NOT designed as a portable hard drive, its designed as a portble hard disc based music player, which may have extra features like video and pictures (both of which are pointless IMO but thats another discussion ), and for that purpose it works very well.
    The problem is first and foremost one of principle: the restrictions are artificial. They needn't be there. They could easily have exactly the same functionality by using a standard USB Mass Storage model - why purposefully restrict it, what does it achieve other than making it hard work for the consumer to transfer music that he has every right to?

    The other problem is compatibility. My friend wants to give me an MP3 (yes, this has happened, yes, he had the rights to do so) and he doesn't like unnecessary software. He plugs it in and finds that it needs iTunes, which he already resents having to download (massive, and you get quicktime forced on you too, lovely) and then finds it's an utter work of art to transfer that one song onto my iPod whilst leaving everything else intact. Half an hour later it's accomplished, he says "why the hell did you buy something so restrictive?" and I have no decent reply to give! Had it been just about any other MP3 player it would've been a 2 second job - plug in, locate MP3, drag and drop onto the drive, done.
    Last edited by Cloudane; 25-07-2007 at 12:52 AM.

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    Not quite - surely it depends on how you define a better player? If you define it on features, then maybe..but imo the zen these days is a jack of all trades...I don't listen to the radio, so dont need a tuner. I dont watch videos or look at pictures on a mini screen (why would anyone want to), I dont have any music in WMA format..so I have an iPod, which does exactly what I need to and does it very well indeed while managing to keep its stylish looks at the same time.

    Also my point was that even though you could have technically superior components by one set of metrics, its actually totally irrelavent because of how its being used (ie to play compressed audio, or even flac stuff over a headphone jack)

    re: the hard drive issue again - but its not artificial, its not designed specifically so you cant do it, and in fact the iPod CAN be recognised as a mass storage device - mine is every time I plug it in. If I want to I can put files on it and take them around with me, all using Windows Explorer and no 3rd party software. Hell if you want to you can enable 'view hidden files and folders' and browse through the folders for any MP3s you have added with iTunes..the problem there is that although all the ID3 tag info is there, the filenames are different to the original (for the purposes of file management on the iPod OS). Even so, its not difficult. I had actually completely forgotton about this functionality else I would have mentioned it in my earlier posts I can even give you an example of how useful this can be. I took my iPod to work with me last year, and plugged it into a machine where I had WinAmp installed, and wanted to listen to some of my music from my iPod..I didn't want to bother messing around with getting authorisation to install iTunes, so I plugged in my iPod, enabled view hidden files and folders, then pointed winamp at the drive. It scanned it and quickly found all my music, which I could then play or manipulate at will.

    So umm the iPod CAN be used as an external hard drive and CAN be recognised as a USB mass storage device if you really want it to, but its just not designed for that purpose and nor should it be Its a music player first and foremost.

    edit: I must stress I am talking about the full sized iPods here - I think the shuffle/nano/mini are all more fashion accessories than anything else, and don't reallly fit into the same category
    Last edited by Spud1; 25-07-2007 at 01:23 AM.

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    jog dials are so last century, my media player offers voice control over a bluetooth headset.

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