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Thread: So, this Vista thing, it's just a new UI, right?...

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    Ex-MSFT Paul Adams's Avatar
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    Post So, this Vista thing, it's just a new UI, right?...

    Selling the latest version of Windows must be an "interesting" task at times when, by human nature, people will only have a short shopping list, typically:
    - what does it do visibly that is different?
    - what new features are there that I would use?
    - is it better performing that the previous version?
    - will my programs and hardware work with it?

    Hence, the first thing that people latch onto is the Aero interface and Flip3D - and when they go scratching around as they have been used to, they encounter that which is UAC.
    It's like Marmite... you either love it or you hate it.
    Personally, I love it (but not, strangely, Marmite).

    Default view format for the Start menu & Control Panel is new different, made to collect common types of tasks & tools together.
    A bone of contention for some, but easily reverted to "classic mode" if you wish.

    The installation is now image-based, great!... but those who buy their machines pre-installed, or upgrade and have to have all their data migrated won't see the wonder of a 35-minute start-to-finish installation.


    At this point, the casual (or impatient) observer might be poking around trying to see what else is "new", but Mark Russinovich is in the middle of writing up some articles to give an inside look at some of the kernel differences in Vista that make interesting reading.
    It might begin to make sense why Windows 2000 is 5.0, XP is 5.1, 2003 is 5.2... but Vista is the first major version upgrade (to 6.0) in a good few years...

    "Inside the Windows Vista Kernel: Part 1"
    http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tec...2/VistaKernel/

    "Inside the Windows Vista Kernel: Part 2"
    http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tec...3/VistaKernel/

    (Part 3 to come)
    ~ I have CDO. It's like OCD except the letters are in alphabetical order, as they should be. ~
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    Will work for beer... nichomach's Avatar
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    As far as UAC goes, I've already voted with my feet - OFF. That might change if I ever get around to deploying Vista at work, but bluntly it was already SEVERELY getting on my nerves. "Yes, I DO want to run this program. That's why I double-clicked on it. No, I DON'T want another damn popup asking me to confirm what I already damned well told you I wanted to do in the first place." So yes, it's off. The only annoyance now is the fact that having disabled it, I have a permanent bloody system tray icon warning me that I've turned it off. I've turned off the notifications telling me that there's a "problem", but I'd REALLY like shot of that systray icon.

    I've yet to make my mind up about the start menu. It feels fiddly, and I've just switched it back to Classic mode, but I'll probably swap back and forth for a while. In general, performance feels a bit nippier, which is good. I don't like the new defragger UI at all, but I understand why they've done it; at least they have the option of scheduled defrags, which is long overdue.
    Last edited by nichomach; 11-03-2007 at 01:33 PM.

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    Ex-MSFT Paul Adams's Avatar
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    User tokens are inherited from parent processes down to their children, so if you launch an elevated command prompt and then from there a series of administrative tools, you don't get any more prompts.

    Convenient if you're doing a lot of admin tasks at the same time, without compromising the security of the entire system.
    ~ I have CDO. It's like OCD except the letters are in alphabetical order, as they should be. ~
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    Moderator chuckskull's Avatar
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    UAC is a great idea for anyone deploying lots of workstations; schools, offices etc. where lots of pebcaks want to install all sorts of stupid stuff or conversely are just stupid. For most people on forums like this is will just be a headache though.

    After using it for a few months the start menu has grown on me, I much prefer it to the old style now.

    There's also a lot of very simple things that make a difference if you use a PC a lot(doubly so, if like me you pull your PC apart alot). Inbuilt memory tester, proper performance monitoring, sleeping instead of completely powering down by default, automatic defragging. The more you use it the more you notice little tweaks that feel like they should of always been there; like the windo previews on the taskbar tabs and ALT+TAB.

    Vista feels a lot faster for me too and I loathe going back to XP now, even after just a couple of months of use.

    @nichomach Security centre > on the left "change the way security centre alerts me". You can disable it there.

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    Will work for beer... nichomach's Avatar
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    Thanks, chuck; I don't want to completely turn off the security centre, since it's quite useful in some respects, and as I say, I've disabled notifications, but I'd really like more granularity to it. I'd just rather that there was an option for those occasions when you've elected to disable something like UAC deliberately; i.e. something along the lines of "I've disabled UAC, so don't bother me about that, but please notify me if my virus scanner naffs up. Oh, and I'm using my own firewall so don't bother me about that one either.". That way, you could retain notifications where they'll be useful, and dispense with them where they aren't. I do like Flip3D though.

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    Moderator chuckskull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nichomach View Post
    Thanks, chuck; I don't want to completely turn off the security centre, since it's quite useful in some respects, and as I say, I've disabled notifications, but I'd really like more granularity to it. I'd just rather that there was an option for those occasions when you've elected to disable something like UAC deliberately; i.e. something along the lines of "I've disabled UAC, so don't bother me about that, but please notify me if my virus scanner naffs up. Oh, and I'm using my own firewall so don't bother me about that one either.". That way, you could retain notifications where they'll be useful, and dispense with them where they aren't. I do like Flip3D though.
    Yeah I agree, I'd put money on something similar being patched into it eventually.

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    Comfortably Numb directhex's Avatar
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    i like the start menu search as a replacement for the run dialog

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    Network|Geek kidzer's Avatar
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    Yeah, its cool - it functions kinof like a run dialog aswell, which saves a lot of WinKey + R action for me
    "If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much room!"
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    Senior Member ajbrun's Avatar
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    Do most people use flip3D then? To me, although it looks nice and all, I still find ALT-TAB a lot easier to use. I suppose for me, this is down to a few reasons:

    * It's too flashy for what's needed.
    * There's not title text on flip3D.
    * You can quickly double press tab to go to the previous window using ALT-TAB, but not with flip3D.
    * I'm still used to reaching for ALT.

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    Pony Fiddler Madafwo's Avatar
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    I am liking Vista at the moment. 90% of my stuff is working fine on it. Even MBM5 with all but my GPU sensor working.

    Flip3D is great, I like the fact that in XP if I pressed the application switch on my MX1000 it used to bring up its own dialog box, now it defaults to Flip3D, its a small but nice touch to be honest.

    I feel it's a little bit slower than XP as well but I plan on seeing if the whole Ready Boost thing and see if that helps at all (for £12 I don't mind putting the drive round the back and leaving it there) Some people I have spoken to says it really does increase performance.

    UAC got on my nerves as well, andI mean seriously, I was along the same lines as nichomach, "Yes I do want that to run, otherwise I wouldn't have doubled clicked on it" So that got switched off, but on the flip side I can see it being useful where you get idiots on the system, but I don't see it being implemented in schools/workplaces for a while just like XP wasn't to begin with.

  11. #11
    Splash
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    I personally like having the popup when something tries to install. Protects me from myself, if nothing else - I like the popups on my firewall, and I like this for the same reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nichomach View Post
    I don't like the new defragger UI at all, but I understand why they've done it; at least they have the option of scheduled defrags, which is long overdue.
    XP and server 2003 have the option of scheduled defrag as it introduced command line defragging. The command is (unsurprisingly) defrag
    "In a perfect world... spammers would get caught, go to jail, and share a cell with many men who have enlarged their penises, taken Viagra and are looking for a new relationship."

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    Moderator chuckskull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badass View Post
    XP and server 2003 have the option of scheduled defrag as it introduced command line defragging. The command is (unsurprisingly) defrag
    It's not so much the fact of whether it can be done or not, but that it requires no thought/effort at all. It's done, dusted and seamless, with no user input.

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    cat /dev/null streetster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajbrun View Post
    * You can quickly double press tab to go to the previous window using ALT-TAB, but not with flip3D.
    cant you use [shift] to go backwards? I assumed that as you can do alt+shift+tab to go backwards in XP, the same would be true of Vista (and Flip3D) ?

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    One Great Ordeal!
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    Quote Originally Posted by streetster View Post
    cant you use [shift] to go backwards? I assumed that as you can do alt+shift+tab to go backwards in XP, the same would be true of Vista (and Flip3D) ?
    You can either scroll the mouse or use the cursor keys to go backwards of forwards. Up or left to go backwards and down or right to go forwards

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    Senior Member ajbrun's Avatar
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    You can use shift, but that's not what I meant. You can change windows using alt-tab in well under a second, but to use flip3D, you need to wait for it all to render before a window can be changed. It's not a big problem, but it's still annoying when you know how many presses of tab it'll take to get to the right window.

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