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Thread: The "Windows Get Clogged Up" Thread

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    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    The "Windows Get Clogged Up" Thread

    Lo guys,

    Hope you're all having a cool Easter.

    Let me pose a question, one that's been posed many times, but which I have just started suffering from:

    Why does XP get clogged up over time, and why must boot times start to slow? And why is it so sensitive to installs?

    All my mates know I'm very very careful with what I install, and what's in my Config file. I use MSCONFIG everytime anything goes into my PC. I nag them (sorry Dakky) about it all the time.

    But, even with an Opteron and a Raptor, after about a years use, the boot time are beginning to slow.

    You know the little blue thing that scrolls from left to right when XP boots? Well, when I have a new, fresh install of XP it goes round 1 1/2 times.

    After XP is sorted and I have al my apps, games etc in it, it still goes round less than twice.

    This weekend I thought I'd use DriveImage 7 and clone my hard drive to a new 320gig Samsung, and try it for a few weeks as a boot drive, to compare to my 74gb Raptor.

    I created a System Restore point, then installed .Net (I never ever install it as I have no use for it except for Driveimage7) then installed DImage and then copied the drive across.

    I've done this many times on EIDE but this is my first crack on SATA.

    It failed. I don't know why, but XP wouldn't boot. I guess it's a SATA issue, as the boot sector maybe different PATA from when this software was written. I don't know, but wasn't bothered as I was ok with the Raptor. I was alwaya gonna use the Samsung as a data/files drive long term anyway.

    I unistalled (Add Remove Programs) DriveImage. I then Add Removed all the .Net stuff.

    Then I used System Restore to my previous XP install.

    And now my XP boot up scrolly bar thingy goes round 7 times.

    And that...as they say...is that.

    And I can't live with it. I just can't. I've unplugged everything...USB headers, spare SATA drive, SATA DVD burner etc...the lot.

    It still boots like that...and so I now know I must reinstall XP.

    Why is it like that.

    /cough

    Rant over......

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

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    Moderator chuckskull's Avatar
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    The more you add, the more stuff gets added during the boot. I think Microsoft actually recommends formatting every 3-6 months. Plus defragging doesn't defrag everything and the ones it doesn't most affect boot speed.

    Anyway who keeps a motherboard for more than 3 months

    Also a good excuse to try Vista

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    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckskull View Post
    The more you add, the more stuff gets added during the boot. I think Microsoft actually recommends formatting every 3-6 months. Plus defragging doesn't defrag everything and the ones it doesn't most affect boot speed.

    Anyway who keeps a motherboard for more than 3 months

    Also a good excuse to try Vista

    I agree about fresh installs. I need to do it again. But it stayed so CLEAN for SO LONG....

    and Vista....hmm...not yet. Soon...but not yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

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    TiG
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    My work machine with life the universe and everything having been installed and reinstalled now takes 7 and a half minutes to boot.

    Its well looked after, defragged regularly, but simply down to the number of drivers, software versions and hacks frigs and work arounds i have to make to my system to get things working sometimes.

    Its a nightmare. Using Vista at the moment to type this and i have to admit it does feel damn nice. That having been said the number of things that still aren't right on here is appalling.

    TiG
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    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiG View Post
    Using Vista at the moment to type this and i have to admit it does feel damn nice. That having been said the number of things that still aren't right on here is appalling.

    TiG
    ahh...someone I trust to tell me the truth about it.

    So..what's not right chap?

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

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    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    hang on.....
    OVER 7 MINUTES!!!!!

    bloody hell!

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

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    Fried Chip Extremist alsenior's Avatar
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    you sould see my old k6 233 with 24 megs of ram on a ata33 in pio4 (system was made before dma became commonplace) took 10 mins to boot with win 98
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    What kind of emergency would need Windows 95? I think you are already in a bad state of emergency when your backup plan is Windows 95.
    Beginners guide to raid Beginners guide to raid post edition Hexus.Social - FAQ

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    My Amiga 1200 booted in 12 seconds, and that was with a reboot part way thru to load some lib files into fast ram lol...

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    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    well...I cant live with it. It must be perfect, or it gets sorted.


    This is due an install! Just wish it wasn't like it

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

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    Senior Member Tobeman's Avatar
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    A quick "offline defrag" with PerfectDisk and a jv16 powertools clean/compress normally shaves a few "Win XP blue bar cycles" off startup every 3-6 months... just postpones the inevitable format though!

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    Have you tried bootvis Zakky?

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    Comfortably Numb directhex's Avatar
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    nice predictable boot times here

    and the old addage that you never need to reinstall a linux system - you can just keep upgrading - is pretty much true

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    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [GSV]Trig View Post
    Have you tried bootvis Zakky?
    just tried. It chicks up and error on my PC. I rant the thing on a loop of three to see if it would throw me some graphs too see, but nope.

    Ran Optimize.... boot times same.

    Not sure it does anything that XP can't do in msconfig tbh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

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    Theoretical Element Spud1's Avatar
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    Couple of things to note here.
    First - its not Microsofts fault. You probably won't believe that but its true its not.

    It is the fault of application developers who don't follow Microsofts Guidelines for writing software for windows. There is a whole set of guidelines (on MSDN) for how to write Windows software, featuring such things as making sure you never write to the applications installation folder after installation (hence why program files is FINALLY read only by default in Vista), guidelines on how to write a windows service (making sure it loads at the correct time), on writing drivers (again things like when they load, what access rights, what calls they can make) etc etc - the list goes on.

    The trouble is that lots of developers don't follow these guidelines - how many games do you have that store savegames in "/program files/gamename/save" ? Or settings/configs in the same place? Then you have software like quicktime or realplayer which install windows services with hooks to keep them re-loading, no matter what you do in MSCONFIG or regedit. Then thereare the 'silent' services that often get installed (iTunes service, jusched (java), catalyst control center) etc etc..and many many more.

    Over time these problems build up and result in windows running slower, or in a less stable way (more BSODs or similar). It gets worse if you try and stop this bad behavious as often these programs will throw a wobbler when you do. System restore is a prime trigger for this, because of how it works. It doesn't backup/restore some things that could be key to a certain program working correctly if that program has stored the information in the wrong place.

    None of that solves your problem but it does go some way to explaining it..and while i'm here, is there any reason you don't have .NET installed? It's the future you know

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    The main reason for this is Windows has an awful NTFS implementation, it fragments and becomes corrupt over time. It's lack of package manager allows cruft to build up over time and lets installer programs mangle system files, when you get down to it, Windows is the worst operating system on earth, it has so many design and implementation problems it's not even funny.

    Though things are looking better with Vista, dispite the DRM junk and other minor annoyances, it's overall much better as an Operating System, as Spud mentioned, it does clean up filesystem usage, which should help against nasty programs that do stupid things, and it does a god job of background defragging.

    Basically, the only way to speed up Windows XP is to format the HDD and start over..... orrr.... throw your computer off a cliff
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by aidanjt View Post
    The main reason for this is Windows has an awful NTFS implementation, it fragments and becomes corrupt over time. It's lack of package manager allows cruft to build up over time and lets installer programs mangle system files, when you get down to it, Windows is the worst operating system on earth, it has so many design and implementation problems it's not even funny.
    That's nonsense. It an extremely powerful, and yet - for the most part - very easy to use operating system that has the ability to put up with all kinds of crap (XP at any rate).

    Anyway back to the point, i've had this install for a few years now and it's only vaguely slower to boot than it was originally. If you do keep the boot process clean zak, i'd imagine the next biggest factor is sheer percentage of system drive usage, unless you've buggered somthing up .
    To err is human. To really foul things up ... you need a computer.

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