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Thread: Web 'Designers' have a quick shifty over this

  1. #1
    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Web 'Designers' have a quick shifty over this

    Build a Silverlight media player | Reg Developer

    I normally wouldn't post reg dev (well mabye verity!) but this isn't a bit quick overview of more modern design patterns.

    I will punch anyone who when I say I'm a developer, says "oh i'm a web designer, i use PHP" if they dare to suggest we're in the same boat.

    This is why,

    Web sites are all to often small projects, so they can encorage bad practices, often the whole projects are write once, throw away.

    Additioanlly they are often the more astetically concerned, which have their place in the team, but they shouldn't be writing code (or thinking that they are) because they dont have a whoot about design patterns.

    A web developer aquantance was simply astounded when he saw this fairly complex winforms app which had been turned into a website in about 2 days. He had never even heard of MVC/MVP despite having the word professional on their CV.

    With silverlight the lines between graphics world (which are the types of people i hold solely responsible for the degreading of the art of CS) and developers are bluring. This should bring about better products (ie people like me don't write any text thats seen by end users), but the graphic designers are going to have to pull their finger out.

    In short here is a simple test of if someone is a compitent programmer, !("Do you use a mac?")
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

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    Comfortably Numb directhex's Avatar
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    Re: Web 'Designers' have a quick shifty over this

    Silverlight Plug-In

    File name: libmoonloader.so
    Novell Moonlight 91322 is Mono's Free/Open Source implementation of SilverLight

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    Don't feed the trolls... tiggerai's Avatar
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    Re: Web 'Designers' have a quick shifty over this

    That's pretty nifty... Just passed it onto my designer to look at.

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: Web 'Designers' have a quick shifty over this

    Quote Originally Posted by directhex View Post
    Silverlight Plug-In

    File name: libmoonloader.so
    Novell Moonlight 91322 is Mono's Free/Open Source implementation of SilverLight
    Not so much the 'deployment platform' (because i'm not going to get into a debate of open-friendlyness of java applets vrs flash vrs silverlight, regretabbly my narrow minded view is, sod that <10%, and at work i'd get laughed out of the trading floor for suggesting a switch from windows) but the way design and development teams interact. The platform is a bugger to change, but the development toolset can always be agumented.

    Right now, i'm having fun with analysists. I've completed about 14 projects which are more complex than this one, which has now managed to clock up 4 weeks of my time, and about £8k of my resources, in less than a week. It is soley because you've got someone who is demonstraiting they don't know which side of the fence to be on, and rather than helping us, its a major hinderance.

    I like the idea of really bringing together the designers + the developers, so both can truely specialise where they belong, where they function best. This will lead to faster developement of a higher quality. WPF i've not really fully embraced, but i do detest GUI work, i much prefer having some modeller give me some maths, me look at it with a trader and decide what approximations he will find acceptable, then i run off and figure out how will will do a few million of them a snap, vrs the cost of the hardware and stability issues. The notion of having a GUI designer be able to bolt straight onto my view, is wounderful, as the main reason I don't have one at present is that they wouldn't offer enough of a cost saving in my time. Its all round a good think, it would create a GUI designer job, who would free up my time for more profitable work, whilst making the users who ultimately decide if i get a new kitchen this year, like the software more.

    Now if only the uni's weren't offering bull***t training courses which sound all web 2.0, and often mean students can only just work a graphics package, i'd be able to ask for a nice cheap graduate slave to do my GUI work. Oh well, mabye soon.
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

  5. #5
    Does he need a reason? Funkstar's Avatar
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    Re: Web 'Designers' have a quick shifty over this

    Isn't the whole of ms.com going Silverlight?

    Some have said it is a last ditch attempt to get Silverlight out there

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: Web 'Designers' have a quick shifty over this

    Quote Originally Posted by Funkstar View Post
    Isn't the whole of ms.com going Silverlight?

    Some have said it is a last ditch attempt to get Silverlight out there
    Until silverlight 2.0 comes out, its again of no intrest to me (until .net 3 support).

    Sorry i should of made clear, its not so much the deployment platform, but the development platform.

    What I would say is that until its on every PC, its not going to go super nova. But when SP2 for vista comes along with it bundled, all that will change, questioning the takeup of a microsoft platform knowing that they can in an almost anti-trust worthy fassion roll it out with the defacto OS is silly really.

    A good example is:
    Microsoft Silverlight - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Now, the criticism is coming from adobe, mainly because silverlight is already doing everything flash can technically a lot better (coridinating real time streaming data/video is much better) and 1.1 alpha really kicks it to the floor. Remeber un-like java applets this is all standardised.

    I'd say the reason java applets lost their crown as the gimmic of the web, was because flash was easyer to develop simple things in. Much easyer.

    If you've got the best developement platform in the world, no matter how small your intial deployment user base is, watch it grow as developers for in house things (who can control the deployment base) fall in love with it, produce great apps with are worth people insalling the runtime for.
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

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    Comfortably Numb directhex's Avatar
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    Re: Web 'Designers' have a quick shifty over this

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    Not so much the 'deployment platform' (because i'm not going to get into a debate of open-friendlyness of java applets vrs flash vrs silverlight, regretabbly my narrow minded view is, sod that <10%, and at work i'd get laughed out of the trading floor for suggesting a switch from windows) but the way design and development teams interact. The platform is a bugger to change, but the development toolset can always be agumented.

    Right now, i'm having fun with analysists. I've completed about 14 projects which are more complex than this one, which has now managed to clock up 4 weeks of my time, and about £8k of my resources, in less than a week. It is soley because you've got someone who is demonstraiting they don't know which side of the fence to be on, and rather than helping us, its a major hinderance.

    I like the idea of really bringing together the designers + the developers, so both can truely specialise where they belong, where they function best. This will lead to faster developement of a higher quality. WPF i've not really fully embraced, but i do detest GUI work, i much prefer having some modeller give me some maths, me look at it with a trader and decide what approximations he will find acceptable, then i run off and figure out how will will do a few million of them a snap, vrs the cost of the hardware and stability issues. The notion of having a GUI designer be able to bolt straight onto my view, is wounderful, as the main reason I don't have one at present is that they wouldn't offer enough of a cost saving in my time. Its all round a good think, it would create a GUI designer job, who would free up my time for more profitable work, whilst making the users who ultimately decide if i get a new kitchen this year, like the software more.

    Now if only the uni's weren't offering bull***t training courses which sound all web 2.0, and often mean students can only just work a graphics package, i'd be able to ask for a nice cheap graduate slave to do my GUI work. Oh well, mabye soon.
    you misunderstand me. i like silverlight. well, .net so silverlight by extension. and adobe can **** right off with their "not committed to other platforms" rubbish, given there's a 64-bit moonlight yet no sign of the same for flash

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    Re: Web 'Designers' have a quick shifty over this

    So considering the fact that Silverlight will come as standard with Vista SP2, do you see it becomming the numero uno for rich internet applications within the next say, 2 or 3 years? Due to the resurgance of Flash over the last few years with people being able to harness it's power in more ways than I think we initially imagined, I'd say it's got a tough job on it's hands. As a designer that has been pushed into development (I'd love to see you pick apart some of my apps ), Silverlight has got me very excited, but I can't seem to justify the time and cost to dive in properly. Oh to be 18 again. Are quality Silverlight designelopers going to be hot property sooner than we think?

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