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Thread: Have the idiots won?

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    Have the idiots won?

    Who knows if this is true but it does seem to make sense. Vista has had a lot of bad press. Some of it justified but a lot of it is just a load of B$. So I reckon rather than try and win people over with Vista and fight a losing battle they might just release a new OS and get rid of the baggage that seems to have become attached to Vista.

    Vista successor, Windows 7 to be released next year? | APC Magazine

    I certainly won't be upgrading from Vista to Windows 7 unless they somehow manage to make the interface even better than Vista's is. It has made me consider putting back my next build to when Windows 7 comes out rather than just when Nehalem comes out.

  2. #2
    Splash
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    Re: Have the idiots won?

    Hmm... I'll personally be pretty shocked if this happens next year (although they did state 2nd half, rather than third or 4th quarter). It'll throw the desktop lifecycle out of synch with the server lifecycle. Most importantly is that the screenshot in the article is pretty clearly faked (even they admit that it's probably the case)

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    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Re: Have the idiots won?

    Well apart from the fact that the screen shot looked like something off a Mac with an IE icon grafted on - exactly what will Windows 7 bring to the party? Will it be a redesign, or just rebadged Vista with a large service pack incorporated? (Making Vista effectively Windows 7 beta )

    If (big if) it is true, it isn't going to do much for Vista sales.
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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: Have the idiots won?

    Microsoft must be looking at apple's model with quite some glee.

    XP SP2 was a hudge leap from XP, and it was just a service pack.

    From the roadmap for Vista, it was ment to be the same (but vista was very delayed).

    Apple almost without fail, release a new version of their OS much more frequently, not only does this keep non-business users excited, revenue is increased, there is a basic sales understanding, that little and more often, is easyer to swallow than a one off payment, which would be less overall.

    However, the business world gets very upset with all this extra work for no real gain.
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    Senior Member godsdog's Avatar
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    Re: Have the idiots won?

    The global April fools committee have been at the bongs again.
    .
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    Comfortably Numb directhex's Avatar
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    Re: Have the idiots won?

    does windows need ubuntuish support cycles - i.e. make "business" versions (INCLUDING DESKTOP) infrequently, and making consumer versions cheaper, more frequently, and with shorter lifetime?

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    Re: Have the idiots won?

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Well apart from the fact that the screen shot looked like something off a Mac with an IE icon grafted on - exactly what will Windows 7 bring to the party? Will it be a redesign, or just rebadged Vista with a large service pack incorporated? (Making Vista effectively Windows 7 beta )

    If (big if) it is true, it isn't going to do much for Vista sales.
    I would imagine that whatever Windows 7 brings to the party it will be built on the bones of Vista rather than another OS built from scratch but again this is pure speculation on my part. At some point someone high up at Microsoft is going to stand up and make the call that they will stop developing a 32 bit desktop OS - they've already made the call for the server, and if Windows 7 isn't that release, I would imagine that Windows 8 will be.

    I'll be going out to buy a tasty looking hat later purely for culinary purposes if this release is made by the end of 2009.

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    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Re: Have the idiots won?

    Quote Originally Posted by Splash View Post
    I'll be going out to buy a tasty looking hat later purely for culinary purposes if this release is made by the end of 2009.
    LOL!
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    Re: Have the idiots won?

    I don't see the need in bringing the release date one year forward. Why don't they try and improve Vista with a new service pack? Isn’t one due to be released soon anyway?

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    Re: Have the idiots won?

    Quote Originally Posted by directhex View Post
    does windows need ubuntuish support cycles - i.e. make "business" versions (INCLUDING DESKTOP) infrequently, and making consumer versions cheaper, more frequently, and with shorter lifetime?
    I pondered that for a minute or 2, but can you imagine all the moans that there would be then? "I installed %Microsoft_OS% a year ago and they're already asking me to upgrade for a few small extra features. M$ SUCKSS!!!!11!one!!".

    The problem is that you just can't please all of the people all of the time. A significant number of people think (rightly or wrongly) that Microsoft are a big evil thing for being a market leader and making money in doing so and will bash anything that they could possibly say or do (including ceasing to trade, I would imagine). Shortening, lengthening or leaving the same the support lifecycle is going to annoy enough people to have them take to their blogs and forums in great numbers.

    I think the Ubuntu model works at least in part because it's a free OS. Anyone deploying it in a corporate environment is going to want the LTS option, but the enthusiasts like to have their cutting edge tech. If Microsoft were to move to a new model I think it more likely that they would look to Apple, and instead of releasing a Service Pack, integrate it into the install and call it a new release of the OS, thus generating revenue.

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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: Have the idiots won?

    Quote Originally Posted by Splash View Post
    I'll be going out to buy a tasty looking hat later purely for culinary purposes if this release is made by the end of 2009.
    I recommend a nice fedora..

    Quote Originally Posted by Splash View Post
    I think the Ubuntu model works at least in part because it's a free OS. Anyone deploying it in a corporate environment is going to want the LTS option, but the enthusiasts like to have their cutting edge tech. If Microsoft were to move to a new model I think it more likely that they would look to Apple, and instead of releasing a Service Pack, integrate it into the install and call it a new release of the OS, thus generating revenue.
    I think they'll almost do the oposite and move to a subscription only model.

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    Re: Have the idiots won?

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    I think they'll almost do the oposite and move to a subscription only model.
    I agree. Afterall, the AV industry has operated a subscription based model for ages.

    Just look at the figures...

    Most sales comes from OEM installs. How much do you think MS actually receives for an OEM build? £10??, maybe less, I don't know but it's not a lot. Now say an OS has a 3-5 year life cycle. You buy a copy of WinXP for £60, that's about £10-20 per year depending how long you use it for.

    If MS charged £10 per year direct, activated over the web on your credit card, they could cut out the middlemen/OEMs and make far more per license whilst at the same time the consumer wouldn't pay any more, maybe less than now. It's a win win situation and only the OEMs lose out - MS doesn't need them anymore as they have market dominance so don't need Windows to come preinstalled on every PC. Plus with WGA they already have all the infrastructure in place apart from the CC payment to implement it - I believe Windows Activation is simply the precursor or beta of such a scheme.

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    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Re: Have the idiots won?

    Quote Originally Posted by Splash View Post

    I think the Ubuntu model works at least in part because it's a free OS. Anyone deploying it in a corporate environment is going to want the LTS option, but the enthusiasts like to have their cutting edge tech. If Microsoft were to move to a new model I think it more likely that they would look to Apple, and instead of releasing a Service Pack, integrate it into the install and call it a new release of the OS, thus generating revenue.
    Or perhaps the Fedora model (nice comment kalniel!) - where REDhat enterprise is the stable and (commercially) supported for a subscription (although the software itself is still open source) and Fedora which is the 'cutting edge' community supported version - which is later incorporated into the 'commercial' product.

    But back to MS - a service pack is provided 'free' as aprt of the product lifecycle - it is what you might reasonably expect as part of the licence fee. Rolling it out as a new version:

    a. - Breaks with the 'bad' connotations of Vista (is its reputation that bad? I don't know but certainly take up in business appears to be slower than MS expected)

    b. Generates a new revenue stream as it will be a 'new' product.

    Incidentally, didn't MS try a subscription license model when XP was introduced - businesses would be required to pay an annual reactivation fee or the software would be disabled? Not sure if there was an intention to do that for the home user - but it was dropped after business gave it a big thumbs down.
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    Senior Amoeba iranu's Avatar
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    Re: Have the idiots won?

    A license to run windows would make an awful lot more sense. That way the consumer can simply pay a small one off fee for the disk or download then pay monthly or yearly or even 3 yearly to run the license. That way there's no need for an OEM version and the rigmorale of activating each time a component changes. They could also sell different versions at different prices. It would suit me certainly.

    I don't want MS paint/calculator/IE7/remote desktop etc so give me an option with a pricing structure to match. Make it so I can bolt on options and pay for them rather than get the full fat version as the only option and allow me to upgrade when I want for the same charge. If I didn't like the upgrade then I could revert back to the older OS without penalty.

    I've also seen a quick heads up of Windows 7 reported in the wild last week so it doesn't surprise me that we have news of bringing this forward. Regardless of how good vista is once a product gets a bad name then it's very difficult to shift that image in peoples minds. I can't see any reason for corporate businesses to make the jump from xp to vista, it just doesn't add anything worthwhile and provides unneeded headaches. Hell alot of businesses are only now making the jump from 2000 to XP.
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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: Have the idiots won?

    Quote Originally Posted by directhex View Post
    does windows need ubuntuish support cycles - i.e. make "business" versions (INCLUDING DESKTOP) infrequently, and making consumer versions cheaper, more frequently, and with shorter lifetime?
    Quiet, they might hear you.....

    Its intresting actually how the press percieves microsoft OS's.

    Normally press people are journios, not techies. The reason is simple, most techies aren't good at explaining things, and most techies are going to be able to eclipse the offered salary for a journo.

    But take the APCmag link, its trash really. They've got no story to go on, they spend ages talking about a buzz word 'Virtualization'. Then fail to understand what they're writing about.

    Pretending that the notion of WOW (Windows On Windows, the support for legacy OS, by having a layer it runs inside) is A. New, B. Something that might not happen, C. Relating it VERY incorrectly to their competitors is plain insiane.

    Its wrong in EVERY way.

    I can't help but feal with vista there was a momentum, that journo's where pissed off with the delay, and jumped on the critaise band wagon.

    Yes the take up is slow, yes people are wanting the glorious older version. But a lot of the journalisim is very poor, we're not all gardian readers, you can't just write George Bush and oil in 500 different ways and expect us to be entertained. Try and provide insight, reasons in whats going wrong, and suggestions on how we (as readers) can get a better experiance/use out of all this.
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    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Re: Have the idiots won?

    Well there was a momentum with Vista - but a lot of the hype and frenzy was generated by MS themselves - those that live by the press shall die by the press (as this government is also finding out - but that's another issue)
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