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Thread: Hey all

  1. #1
    HEXUS.social member Disturbedguy's Avatar
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    Hey all

    Hey

    For my final year of Univiersity I have to do a Software Engineering unit which involves either PHP or JAVA.

    We have been told that the Univeristy doesn't force students coming from a 2 year foundation degree onto a final year to make programs as they feel it would be unfair to those students who dont have the experience or knowledge in either of the languages.

    I have however, decided to try and learn Java on my own so when I start my final year of study at Salford I may have some knowledge of Java so I could atleast make something small and make the unit feel more worth while and if by the time I start the final year I havent learnt Java, then all am losing is time really.

    So I was wondering if anyone here had any links to some Java tutorials?

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: Hey all

    a software engineering unit that involves PHP......

    Thats like having a gastronomy practical that involves crystal meth.

    Your definately doing the right thing by wanting to learn Java, given those choices, do stick it out, one of the easy interview questions if ever you work near software developement will be "what did you do for x".

    If you prefer the book approche try:
    Javanotes 5.0.2 -- Title Page
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

  3. #3
    Don't feed the trolls... tiggerai's Avatar
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    Re: Hey all

    I'll dig out a list of good books when i get home tonight.

    Software engineering involving PHP... I've heard it all now.

    I suppose it has gone a bit OO so that might just about justify it.

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    mutantbass head Lee H's Avatar
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    Re: Hey all

    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbedguy View Post
    when I start my final year of study at Salford
    heh cool place - that's where I was in the new IT building near the chapman theatres

  5. #5
    HEXUS.social member Disturbedguy's Avatar
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    Re: Hey all

    i was surprised to be told PHP aswell thanks for the input everyone..thats probably where ill be, apparently were arranging a visit to the place before we go there.

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    Re: Hey all

    Nelson Mandela bar indeed...

    Raid the library for Wrox book "Ivor Horton's Beginning Java 2, JDK 5 Edition" (ISBN: 978-0-7645-6874-9), and another I can't remember full title of, something like "Head First..." - cracking book on OO.

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    Theoretical Element Spud1's Avatar
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    Re: Hey all

    If looking to learn Java then Suns website is a good place to start - my old uni (Staffordshire) shamelessly copied the tutorials and notes from their website many times during my degree (further proving that i didn't need to go to lectures, and hey, the results speak for themselves ) so I guess they are pretty good for when your just starting out in programming.

    The Java™ Tutorials

    Then once you have learnt it you can have a go at your professor about why your uni thinks php is a programming language, and how they should replace it with .net/c#

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    HEXUS.social member Disturbedguy's Avatar
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    Re: Hey all

    technically not my uni until i start attending there

    Yeah I had a quick glance over Suns website the other night, need to get some coursework started first..and probably finished actually..then get myself some spare time during the holidays to look at it.

    btw, tiggerai did you find the names of those books? please and thanks

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    Re: Hey all

    I'd recommend the Ivor Horton book also for Java. I wouldn't disregard PHP though. It's a great tool for learning systems programming in a Linux environment.
    To err is human. To really foul things up ... you need a computer.

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    Senior Member chrestomanci's Avatar
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    Re: Hey all

    Quote Originally Posted by tiggerai View Post
    I'll dig out a list of good books when i get home tonight.

    Software engineering involving PHP... I've heard it all now.

    I suppose it has gone a bit OO so that might just about justify it.
    Remember it is software engineering, not Computer science. I.e. it is vocational, and teaches languages and techniques used in industry right now, not a load of theory, and strange functional languages that is good for giving a theoretical background, but does not have an immediate application.

    To the OP, I taught myself Java on the Job about 7 years ago. I did not find it that hard. There are loads of online tutorials out there, but It would help to buy a few textbooks. If you have a good grounding in other programing languages, then an sutable O'Reilly Nutshell book would be good, but as these assume you know how to program, they would not be so good if you don't have much experience in other languages.

    My other piece of advice would be to download and install Eclipse. It is a free IDE written in Java that supports loads of languages. The Java support is first rate. When I was learning I did not have access to such powerful tools, but I have used eclipse for some more recent projects, and it really speeds up development and debugging.
    Last edited by chrestomanci; 04-02-2008 at 08:31 PM.

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: Hey all

    no, its a waste of time.

    I'm not saying PHP isn't a zietgiest, but.

    Its future isn't exactly set in stone, look at ruby on rails, monorail, MS MVC etc.

    All are far better languages from an 'pureist' side, and all are rapidly growing in industry, because they have a better cost of developement.

    Teaching PHP is very bad if your going to begin to call it a degree.
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

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    Re: Hey all

    Bah, in my day they taught you C and asm, and you learned to write efficient code.

    Starting with JAVA/OOP as a first language means students never understand how to make code run quicker, or use less resources IME. Asm is long gone, but it gave you a feel for being "close to the metal", something which is lost these days

    Still, I suppose the modern approach is throw more RAM and CPU at it if its slow....

    ...wanders off with pipe and slippers...

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: Hey all

    as we're moving to ever more cores, writing a fast program would probably be better in a functional language (say F#).

    This allows for easy parralisation by teh compiler and JIT'er. If you've done some hand crafted ASM/IL then its effort to make it scale well on 16 cores, and just 2.

    What i'm getting at is ASM/IL isn't a garantee that it will be fast today, and tommorow.

    (but hey, its very useful, and i agree uni's should teach it FIRST.)
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

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    Don't feed the trolls... tiggerai's Avatar
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    Re: Hey all

    Quote Originally Posted by chrestomanci View Post
    Remember it is software engineering, not Computer science. I.e. it is vocational, and teaches languages and techniques used in industry right now, not a load of theory, and strange functional languages that is good for giving a theoretical background, but does not have an immediate application.
    To the OP, I taught myself Java on the Job about 7 years ago. I did not find it that hard. There are loads of online tutorials out there, but It would help to buy a few textbooks. If you have a good grounding in other programing languages, then an sutable O'Reilly Nutshell book would be good, but as these assume you know how to program, they would not be so good if you don't have much experience in other languages.

    My other piece of advice would be to download and install It is a free IDE written in Java that supports loads of languages. The Java support is first rate. When I was learning I did not have access to such powerful tools, but I have used eclipse for some more recent projects, and it really speeds up development and debugging.

    Err yes, I believe I would know what Software Engineering entails, being a graduated Software Engineer. I did also do Theoretical and Formal Languages as part of that course. Being a Web Developer now, I wouldn't class PHP as a Software Programming language that's all.

    Deffo agreement on Eclipse though and I beleive that someone has mentioned Ivor Horton, a good place to start as thats where I started with Java.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikerr View Post
    Bah, in my day they taught you C and asm, and you learned to write efficient code.

    Starting with JAVA/OOP as a first language means students never understand how to make code run quicker, or use less resources IME. Asm is long gone, but it gave you a feel for being "close to the metal", something which is lost these days
    I disagree, having been taught Java as a degree and software engineer we were taught about writing efficient code, threads, garbage collection, refactoring and all the other things.
    We also were taught C and Unix programming to ensure that we can turn our hand to thread based instead of OO and know the differences.

    Just depends on where you go really.
    Last edited by tiggerai; 04-02-2008 at 11:00 AM.

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    Welcome to stampytown! Salazaar's Avatar
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    Re: Hey all

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee @ SCAN View Post
    heh cool place - that's where I was in the new IT building near the chapman theatres
    That's where I went as well! Though I did the other kind of engineering, with hammers, arc welders and high speed wind tunnels over in the Newtom building.
    ____
    (='.'=)
    (")_(")

  16. #16
    HEXUS.social member Disturbedguy's Avatar
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    Re: Hey all

    Quote Originally Posted by chrestomanci View Post
    To the OP, I taught myself Java on the Job about 7 years ago. I did not find it that hard. There are loads of online tutorials out there, but It would help to buy a few textbooks. If you have a good grounding in other programing languages, then an sutable O'Reilly Nutshell book would be good, but as these assume you know how to program, they would not be so good if you don't have much experience in other languages.

    My other piece of advice would be to download and install It is a free IDE written in Java that supports loads of languages.
    The only other languages I have used are HTML which was self taught and a tiny bit of Visual Basic (Just enough to get me through a college unit) there about the only languages I have actually looked at or used in any shape or form...

    As for an IDE, I spoke to a friend of mine who completed his Software Engineering Degree last year and he and others Ive spoken to have recommend NetBeans to me.

    Bah, in my day they taught you C and asm, and you learned to write efficient code.

    Starting with JAVA/OOP as a first language means students never understand how to make code run quicker, or use less resources IME. Asm is long gone, but it gave you a feel for being "close to the metal", something which is lost these days
    The mate mentioned above did C and abit of asm at University but he felt he didnt learn all that much as he self taught himself C, C++, Java, Java Script, PHP and a whole lot more, he picks up on language like a giant sponge soaking up water, he knew most of the above while in high school..the geek .

    As an example of his work and 2DVR - 2D Virtual Reality - both created using languages he has taught himself.

    As for text books ill speak to my mate see if i can lend some of his, he doesnt need em lol.

    I have downloaded and installed NetBeans and the latest JDK, now all i need to do is finish some Uni work to give myself spare time so i can start the learning process.

    Thanks again all

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