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Thread: c# Noob

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    Chillie in here j.o.s.h.1408's Avatar
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    c# Noob

    Hello guys i was wondering if you guys have any ideas of a simple program i can make to help me learn the basics in C#. Also what tools ie IDE's etc do i need to develope my first c# program. Thanks

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    Comfortably Numb directhex's Avatar
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    Re: c# Noob

    visual studio express or sharpdevelop on windows

    monodevelop on linux

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    Senior Member kasavien's Avatar
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    Re: c# Noob

    gah, hex beat me to it but i was going to suggest visual c# express edition too Visual C# 2008 Express Edition I'm a big fan of visual studio at the moment, although it's a bit of a love hate relationship, when it's doing what you intend it to its fantastic and very powerful, but if it starts throwing up errors i've found they can be hard to decipher but google is very useful in this case!.

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    Chillie in here j.o.s.h.1408's Avatar
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    Re: c# Noob

    hehe thanks guys. i'l give it a try and see what the fuss is about with c#

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    Re: c# Noob

    I'm late to the party as usual!

    But anyhoo, as mentioned, Visual Studio express editions are basically ace. If you use the web versions they also come with a built in mini web server, great for playing with asp.net (and you can write the back-end code in c#). Then you can also stick your efforts on the web for all to see.

    As for an idea for what to program,

    After you've done "Hello World" as a console app, winforms app and an asp.net web app, you'll have learned a fair bit about the environment (how to start a project etc) then try the following pages for ideas:
    Geeky / mathematical based ides: Project Euler
    Other ideas: 15 Exercises for Learning a new Programming Language
    I think this one allows you to compete with other people to solve software problems: Programming Contests, Software Development, and Employment Services at TopCoder
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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: c# Noob

    The only downside to C# express is that you miss out on the truely fantastic Resharper.

    If you become serious about c# developement punting for the proffessional edition and resharper will pay dividends!

    as for tutorials, some great links on Jon Skeet's C# and .NET articles and links

    and also for a bit of the newer more functional oriented features:
    C# 3.0 Tutorial: Linq
    (and what is functional programming? Functional programming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

    reason i say this is my prediction goes something like this, at some point in the:
    80s the rise of the OO developement
    90s the rise of the RAD
    00s the rise of the Virtual Machine (putting right the wrongs of the interpreted)
    10s the rise of the functional languages (just makes parralisation so much easyer, stateless developement and immutability will be the norm).
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    Theoretical Element Spud1's Avatar
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    Re: c# Noob

    The MSDN website is a good place to start for tutorials/ideas for first programs (Learn C#), and also take a look at CodeProject. Free source code and programming help - lots of invaluable help and ideas there

    a bit OT - but functional programming becoming the future? I just can't see it..not for mainstream applications anyway. FP has its uses for certain things like mathamatical programs, compilers, and of course list processing, but I don't see it being taken up as the paradigm of choice.

    I've done some work with Lisp(scheme) in the past and more recently Haskell which has taught me the concepts, and I have to say I hate it with a passion. To me, its a horrible way of working..but thats possibly because of my programming background and that i've got used to working with side effects + states

    I'm interested as to why you (TheAnimus) think its going to be a big thing in the next 12 years - is there some big advantage over imperative/oo languages that i've missed?

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: c# Noob

    Quote Originally Posted by Spud1 View Post
    a bit OT - but functional programming becoming the future? I just can't see it..not for mainstream applications anyway. FP has its uses for certain things like mathamatical programs, compilers, and of course list processing, but I don't see it being taken up as the paradigm of choice.

    I've done some work with Lisp(scheme) in the past and more recently Haskell which has taught me the concepts, and I have to say I hate it with a passion. To me, its a horrible way of working..but thats possibly because of my programming background and that i've got used to working with side effects + states

    I'm interested as to why you (TheAnimus) think its going to be a big thing in the next 12 years - is there some big advantage over imperative/oo languages that i've missed?
    Most often, its loops in peoples code that take up all the time.

    with LINQ we're seeing a mainstream language get functional ideas, lambda's etc. People are using these features to write not only neater, easyer to read, shorter code. But as i mentioned above, because of the inherent ideas of immutability and a lack of a state. Its very easy to parallise off. How many people have 4 cores (thinking of the fantastic Q6600 its only a little over £150.) how long before even the lowest end machines have 4 cores. Plenty already have two.

    Its quite hard to program for multithreading in imperative languages properly, compared with the ease of functional.
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    Senior Member Kezzer's Avatar
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    Re: c# Noob

    Despite me being a big lover of Java, C# is actually very good, and the support available for service-level applications is very nice which is good if you're running servers and need to do certain tasks every now and again

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: c# Noob

    Kezzer, C# is an ECMA standard, so as a language its instaintly better in many ways that propreitry Java.

    Its moving at an increible pace. Because there are so many .Net languages (F#,Boo,Nermal,IronPython too name a few of my favourate 'alt' ones) that you can mix and match in the same project inherit from, and bolt 'static' methods onto, the C# team are grabbing every good idea and putting it into C#. Not sure how this will effect the readability long term, espesually for poor/new developers of complex code. But for me its loverly.

    Not to mention the .Net framework is so much better than java, value types in my generics, which are reflectable and built into the VM rather than compiled.... Yes please.
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    Re: c# Noob

    Learnvisualstudio.net is a good place. You need to be a member to get most of the videos but its a really good way to learn the language imo

    Im using visual studio 2008 express edition atm which Is pretty good for free

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    Chillie in here j.o.s.h.1408's Avatar
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    Re: c# Noob

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus View Post
    Kezzer, C# is an ECMA standard, so as a language its instaintly better in many ways that propreitry Java.

    Its moving at an increible pace. Because there are so many .Net languages (F#,Boo,Nermal,IronPython too name a few of my favourate 'alt' ones) that you can mix and match in the same project inherit from, and bolt 'static' methods onto, the C# team are grabbing every good idea and putting it into C#. Not sure how this will effect the readability long term, espesually for poor/new developers of complex code. But for me its loverly.

    Not to mention the .Net framework is so much better than java, value types in my generics, which are reflectable and built into the VM rather than compiled.... Yes please.
    but can c# program run under linux straight out of the box? what about mobile applications? watch this space guys because mobile applications will become BIG as mobile phones become more technical advance and acts has mini pc's ie cough cough htc tytn2?

    IMO java is better because its more flexible then c#. java is used in cash machines, microwaves, mobile devices, servers, desktop apps etc.

    investment banking lives on java. i am interested in c# because if for some strange reason it complitely dominates and takes over java, i will be ready for change

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    Re: c# Noob

    Being more flexible doesnt make it better - just suitable for a different purpose.

    Java is more suitable for applications that need to operate on multiple platforms, and don't need to take advantage of functions offered by a particular operating system (eg they dont need to use the WinAPI). Furthermore I wouldnt write a large scale application in java - I know it can be done (applications like Eclipse prove this) but the results are generally not as nice as when written with a different framework or a native language. Eclipse works ok, but it is a bit slow, and isnt completely platform independant.

    Your comment about the mobile market represents how things are today - there are ALOT of java applications for mobile devices, its a popular way to do things being as the apps will run on almost any mobile out there...but the majority of them are slow and not nice to use. You can write amazing application for mobile devices using .NET - and afaik all windows mobile phones come with .NET built in now. Things are changing as more and more WM6 handsets appear, and more and more mobile .NET applications are popping up all over the place. Its a very powerful framework with tremendous potential for the future of mobile applications.

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    Chillie in here j.o.s.h.1408's Avatar
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    Re: c# Noob

    Quote Originally Posted by Spud1 View Post
    Being more flexible doesnt make it better - just suitable for a different purpose.

    Java is more suitable for applications that need to operate on multiple platforms, and don't need to take advantage of functions offered by a particular operating system (eg they dont need to use the WinAPI). Furthermore I wouldnt write a large scale application in java - I know it can be done (applications like Eclipse prove this) but the results are generally not as nice as when written with a different framework or a native language. Eclipse works ok, but it is a bit slow, and isnt completely platform independant.

    Your comment about the mobile market represents how things are today - there are ALOT of java applications for mobile devices, its a popular way to do things being as the apps will run on almost any mobile out there...but the majority of them are slow and not nice to use. You can write amazing application for mobile devices using .NET - and afaik all windows mobile phones come with .NET built in now. Things are changing as more and more WM6 handsets appear, and more and more mobile .NET applications are popping up all over the place. Its a very powerful framework with tremendous potential for the future of mobile applications.
    The reason why some are slow is because the code has not been properly optimised. .NET has a LOOOONG way to go before it even comes close to competing with java in the mobile world.

    with the release of MIDP 3 java will become more powerful then ever before. the only problem with j2me ie java mobile is that porting is a pain due to different specs in various handsets but that will change has handsets are becoming more technical advanced and there will be no need to support old handsets with more heap size and lack of midp 2 support.

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: c# Noob

    Quote Originally Posted by j.o.s.h.1408 View Post
    investment banking lives on java. i am interested in c# because if for some strange reason it complitely dominates and takes over java, i will be ready for change
    Sh!t... does it? Wish i'd known that, i'm compitent with java.

    don't know why i was earning over 2 times average salary as a grad doing C# before i left the IB then, including bonus, we were paid 1.5 times the java bunnies, not just because we are a scarecer bread, but because the work we do runs faster, and is quicker to develope.

    Investment banking runs on money, as for software developement, that will always be following what ever is the best value. Anyone who says otherwise is lieing.

    However i can say this, the hedgefund i now work for does pratically all its development in .Net, Excel VBA, and C++ (XLLs).

    The problem with the Java vrs C# debate, is that java is a language and a platform. C# is one of many .Net languages. Java is propreitry and missing from many linux distro (restrictive license and all, its not FREE). Mono is of course FREE.

    Java is also lacking many basic things .Net developers take for granted, its generics are shoddy compiler trick, which inheriently box things (STUPID, STUPID STUPID!) so my list of doubles takes for ever too loop through. Java also runs very slowly on a lot of embedded applications and has failed therefore to take the ground from C/C++ we see many a complex embedded project resorting too linux! Java also lacks un-signed bytes etc which don't make low end micro development easy.

    The trick is too learn as many as possible, but master the best
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    Comfortably Numb directhex's Avatar
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    Re: c# Noob

    Quote Originally Posted by j.o.s.h.1408 View Post
    but can c# program run under linux straight out of the box?
    if the program isn't written like arse, yes.

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