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Thread: Microsoft vs EU?

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    Microsoft vs EU?

    Why is MS bowing down to the EU toads by paying fines and so on, can't they just throw the lawyers at them, ignore fines and counter sue?
    And even if the EU toads have the power to kick out MS from the EU, they couldn't possibly do it as the ground and the economy would crumble beneath them.
    Last edited by Cuffz; 22-06-2009 at 01:04 PM. Reason: language :>.

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    Does he need a reason? Funkstar's Avatar
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    Re: Microsoft vs EU?

    Don't you think that if it was that simple to ignore the European Courts they would?

    They wouldn't need to "kick out MS from the EU", they could just declare the EULA invalid, meaning no-one would need to pay for licenses. Or they could start seizing assets, a fairly normal thing to do in that situation.

    This court case has been going for years and at the end of the day, the only ones that really win are the lawyers.

    (I expect someone, like Saracen, to give a far more thought out response to this. But really, the first line sums it up nicely )

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    Re: Microsoft vs EU?

    This is not the EU picking a fight with MS

    In the EU there are laws to prevent anti-competitive practices harming the consumer (you and me)

    When a company (in this case MS) breaks those rules then the EU can impose sanctions

    Thats all there is to it - nothing mor enothing less

    MS is not the only company to be fined like this, and they won't be the last.

    European companies are fined for breaking the rules too, not just American ones - (some of the US centric boards I go to seem to imagine this is some kind of war against the US)

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    Not a good person scaryjim's Avatar
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    Re: Microsoft vs EU?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuffz View Post
    can't they just throw the lawyers at them, ignore fines and counter sue?
    They've already thrown the lawyers at them. This is what happens after...

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    Re: Microsoft vs EU?

    Quote Originally Posted by Funkstar View Post
    Don't you think that if it was that simple to ignore the European Courts they would?
    I see, then the EU can continue to pick pocket any corporation it sees fit. what a world we live in.
    Degrading corporations and their products, how does this benefit the consumer? All it does is line the pockets of the EU political classes.

    I guess large amounts of the public are not equipped to vote correctly on these issues.

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    Does he need a reason? Funkstar's Avatar
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    Re: Microsoft vs EU?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuffz View Post
    I see, then the EU can continue to pick pocket any corporation it sees fit. what a world we live in.
    Degrading corporations and their products, how does this benefit the consumer? All it does is line the pockets of the EU political classes.
    The EU can take any company to court for anti competitive practises. This is what it did with Microsoft, the US Department of Justice did exactly the same a few years ago.

    It benefits the consumer because it stops a company in a dominant position from taking advantage of their position. In this case it wasn't just about MS having Internet Explorer bundled with Windows, it was about them penalizing PC vendors when they bundled other browsers as well. For instance MegaPCBuilder might suddenly find they have to pay twice as much for a Windows license because they have taken the decision to install Netscape on all their desktops as well as IE (yes, the case does go back that far).

    Same goes for media players. MS were putting pressure on vendors for including Quicktime and RealPlayer on their systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuffz View Post
    I guess large amounts of the public are not equipped to vote correctly on these issues.
    I guess large amounts of the public are not equipped to understand these issues

    (that last bit really isn't meant as a serious dig )

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    Re: Microsoft vs EU?

    Quote Originally Posted by Funkstar View Post
    The EU can take any company to court for anti competitive practises. This is what it did with Microsoft, the US Department of Justice did exactly the same a few years ago.

    It benefits the consumer because it stops a company in a dominant position from taking advantage of their position. In this case it wasn't just about MS having Internet Explorer bundled with Windows, it was about them penalizing PC vendors when they bundled other browsers as well. For instance MegaPCBuilder might suddenly find they have to pay twice as much for a Windows license because they have taken the decision to install Netscape on all their desktops as well as IE (yes, the case does go back that far).

    Same goes for media players. MS were putting pressure on vendors for including Quicktime and RealPlayer on their systems.


    I guess large amounts of the public are not equipped to understand these issues

    (that last bit really isn't meant as a serious dig )
    Thanks for the info funkstar
    i guess other people would do the same in that position but its still wrong...
    are microsoft really scared that people will become less and less reliant on MS software and eventually switch to another platform?
    Last edited by lodore; 22-06-2009 at 01:42 PM.

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    Re: Microsoft vs EU?

    Quote Originally Posted by lodore View Post
    Thanks for the info funkstar
    i had no idea MS charged oem's more for windows licenses due to bundling third party programs that is a very serious matter indeed.....
    Thats just an example really. There was a whole host of anti-competitive practises going on. And a lot of things that weren't directly related, reduction of marketing cash for instance.

    Intel have been accused of very similar things. Accusations of "if you release an AMD PC, you might find delivery problems from Intel" etc.

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    Re: Microsoft vs EU?

    Here is a reasonable timeline for the MS vs EU case, though I think there is now a lot more to it. I can't remember if the browser things is part of the same suite, or a seperate filing.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...rosoft.europe1

    They were fined €497m in 2004 and didn't pay it, so another €280.5m was added on top in 2006. Last year this went up to €899m because it still wasn't settled.

    This is what happens when you "throw the lawyers at them"

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    Re: Microsoft vs EU?

    Quote Originally Posted by Funkstar View Post
    Thats just an example really. There was a whole host of anti-competitive practises going on. And a lot of things that weren't directly related, reduction of marketing cash for instance.

    Intel have been accused of very similar things. Accusations of "if you release an AMD PC, you might find delivery problems from Intel" etc.
    I thought it was just a example but I know MS could easily do that.
    all the major companies seem to do this type of thing.
    surely is MS produce better quality applications people will continue to buy software from MS?
    windows 7 still has alot of legacy stuff and other problems such as the registry which means windows gets slower after time. OSX,Linux,solaris,BSD etc don't get slower after time. the more competition the better IMO. im surprised that MS finally listened to customer feedback. vista isnt as bad as people say but the other platforms are still better.
    I have always liked the windows interface. i cant find an interface that i like for unix based os's and i cant really afford a mac just to try out osx...

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    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Re: Microsoft vs EU?

    If Microsoft (or any other corporation) want to trade in a country or territory, they have to abide by the trading rules in that country, or face the consequences if they don't. The same is true for any European Corporation wishing to trade in the USA (or China, or anywhere else); they have to abide by the legislation applicable to that country or state. If MS were to metaphorically stick two fingers up at the courts, they would be supporting an anarchic siuation which would threaten the rule of law, which would be unnacceptable - moreover, they would risk forfeiting the protection that that state offers to their trading rights (patents, IPR and so on)

    There is another issue of whether the EU should be taking soverignty from the member countries, and why the people of those countries are willing to hand over control of their legal and regulatory systems to the EU monolith - but that isn't the issue for this thread!
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    Re: Microsoft vs EU?

    The opinion elsewhere is that what's going on right now is going beyond logic and that they are just finding whatever means they can to milk microsoft for the maximum amount possible and indefinitely.

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    Re: Microsoft vs EU?

    There are certain situations where I'm not convinced the courts/EU could do anything, their credibility would go through the floor with objective observers.

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    Re: Microsoft vs EU?

    But the whole argument is flawed because apple isnt in the picture right?. They are more anti competitive than MS imo, iphone is restricted to safari only and same with the mac which is even worse as its restricted to apple computers!. So if microsoft didnt sell windows to anyone apart from their own made pc(if they did decide to make them) and keep IE/Media player installed along with hogging all the tv air time for adverts they wouldnt be fined by the eu? lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by snootyjim View Post
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    Re: Microsoft vs EU?

    Microsoft seem to constantly get fined by the EU. And in my opinion, it's not always justified. I don't understand why MS can't bundle IE/media player with windows. Nobody pays for web browsers or media players

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    Re: Microsoft vs EU?

    @hicks12,
    I agree about apple tbh. not allowing any other browser to be installed is stupid.
    you can install whatever browser you want on the full OSX thou.
    The fact they bundle itunes,safari,mobileme and ilife should be stopped as well.

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