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Thread: Windows 7 (Retail) - Disappearing services / Icons?

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    Windows 7 (Retail) - Disappearing services / Icons?

    Hi All,

    I got my copy of Win7 Pro today from PC world and thought I'd install it on a spare drive to see how it is. Overally, I'm fairly impressed as it seems like a much friendlier place to be than Vista was. I've gone for 64 bit as I have some synths that eat as much memory as you can throw at them, so I figured now might be a good chance to try 64 bit.

    However, I've come across something very strange that I could use some help with.

    I use my machine to work (I'm a self employed web developer) so it has to be rock solid and actually work (which is why I never went to vista). I've dipped my toe into Win7 just to see how it was on a spare drive I had lying around and everything seemed to be going swimmingly.

    I had installed PHP, Apache and mySQL and to my surprise they all installed with no issues whatsoever. Apache was up and running (localhost worked fine) with the apache monitor in the system tray, and I had installed mySQL tools and created some shortcuts in my quick launch for the relevant apps. Happy days I thought.

    However, after a restart, Apache and mySQL were not running, my icons had disappeared from quicklaunch and as far as I can tell, they never existed. There are still some files in the directories where I installed, but there are absolutely no exes in there at all. I can't find a trace of the services in the service monitor so I'm pretty stumped tbh.

    So, is this UAC being a bit too militant or is it just a Win7 bug that they'll clear up after the OS has been around for a month or so? Obviously the OS has only just gone to retail which is why I'm just tinkering with it and am not relying on it for day to day work. Needless to say, my XP drive is going back in during the day as I can't afford to be fannying around with Win7 if it's going to delete essential tools on a whim.

    I have ESET Smart Security Suite installed, but I've never seen it act this way in XP so that less of a suspect than Win7 itself. If I find a solution, I'll post back here
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    Re: Windows 7 (Retail) - Disappearing services / Icons?

    Sounds like a classic case of UAC not starting a service because it requires UAC authication to start it up. You can solve it by turning off UAC. However, if you find a way to make a program auto-start that requires UAC with UAC enabled, I will appericiate it. I have the same problem with one of my system moniters, Core Temp.
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    Re: Windows 7 (Retail) - Disappearing services / Icons?

    Yeah, I thought it was probably UAC but I'm still puzzled that the exes had disappeared. I just re-installed mysql tools and the exes seem to be in there after a restart so I don't know what deleted them in the first place. I'm thinking that a re-install is in order and I'll image the partition before I do too much. Once I've figured out what is causing the problem (could still be NOD), I'll have a better chance of troubleshooting the cause. Trouble is my backup software (Acronis) doesn't work in Win7 (could be a 64 bit thing) and I therefore have to buy some new stuff as I want access to my backups in Vista(for my laptop) and XP as well.

    If I do find a way around it, I'll post back here, but for now I'm back in XP as I have some work to finish today and I can't afford to be messing around with Win7. It's like I always say to my friends who were bugging me to move to Vista. I use my PC to make a living so I can't be fannying around with this kind of error when I have deadlines to meet. Getting the basics up and running was susprisingly easy (graphics drivers, sound cards, etc) but once you step outside the task of an average user, things get a little more tricky.
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    Re: Windows 7 (Retail) - Disappearing services / Icons?

    Quote Originally Posted by nightkhaos View Post
    Sounds like a classic case of UAC not starting a service because it requires UAC authication to start it up. You can solve it by turning off UAC. However, if you find a way to make a program auto-start that requires UAC with UAC enabled, I will appericiate it. I have the same problem with one of my system moniters, Core Temp.
    Simple really, use the built in Task Scheduler - you can get any task to run at startup/login/whatever time with the credentials you wish. I used it to start up LCD Smartie on my wife's machine for example and it's remarkably easy to setup. Services that are started by the system don't need this though - they start as "system" and before login so i'm not convinced by your opening statement. A normal task however does need this workaround (unless the author of the software actually fixes their code to be more compliant with the security model - or even actually just install itself correctly in the first place).

    My first workaround was to get my software to run as a service - but this has the disadvantage of living on the system 'desktop' which makes getting at the UI tricky if you want to reconfigure things. The task scheduler method is much easier to live with - your programs will run as per normal with elevation in place etc. I even use it to trigger an updater program every 3 days which requires elevation due to where it outputs to (program files).

    Sidenote - Acronis works with Windows 7 - but you'll need a more up to date version from the sounds of it. TI 2010 works fine for me.

    And remember - if software doesn't work correctly under 7 then BUG THE AUTHORS of the software because there's no reason whatsoever why the users should be made to workaround sloppy code/installers!
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    Re: Windows 7 (Retail) - Disappearing services / Icons?

    I believe Apache and mySQL are meant to run as system services (at least they do on XP). Certainly it doesn't explain where the .exe files went. I've got to say, it looks more and more like something has gone in and tried to "protect" me from myself and almost done a roll back. My shortcuts had disappeared, the exes had been deleted and there's absolutely no trace of them as services (even though they were working).

    At this point in time, I strongly suspect either my firewall/antivirus or UAC thinks they're dangerous applications (which seems unlikely but you never know).I'm going to plug the drive back in today and re-install and do an image, though I think I might go 32 bit. Drivers seem easier to come by and there aren't enough 64 bit native apps to make it realistically worth it. I've always got the option in the future to go 64bit, but for now I don't think we're quite there for the stuff I use.

    I was using Acronis TI 9 which is a little old, but worked fine on Vista. Saying that, I think it's a 64 bit problem as it complains about signed drivers so I might just give it a try on 32 bit before plonking down £35 for a new version.
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    Re: Windows 7 (Retail) - Disappearing services / Icons?

    Quote Originally Posted by wombar View Post
    I believe Apache and mySQL are meant to run as system services (at least they do on XP). Certainly it doesn't explain where the .exe files went. I've got to say, it looks more and more like something has gone in and tried to "protect" me from myself and almost done a roll back. My shortcuts had disappeared, the exes had been deleted and there's absolutely no trace of them as services (even though they were working).

    At this point in time, I strongly suspect either my firewall/antivirus or UAC thinks they're dangerous applications (which seems unlikely but you never know).I'm going to plug the drive back in today and re-install and do an image, though I think I might go 32 bit. Drivers seem easier to come by and there aren't enough 64 bit native apps to make it realistically worth it. I've always got the option in the future to go 64bit, but for now I don't think we're quite there for the stuff I use.
    Well UAC won't remove files from the system (100% sure on this - it's just not in the spec), and so long as the installer was elevated it could write them where it likes (e.g. program files). Very strange!

    As for 64/32 - unless you have a concrete issue with 64 then stick with it. Driver support is very good (MS enforce it via WHQL - devs *must* provide 64bit drivers if they want certification) so that's not really a sticking point (except for obscure hardware perhaps). It's also a little faster, and you can use all that RAM too which is always nice.
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    Re: Windows 7 (Retail) - Disappearing services / Icons?

    Have you looked in C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files to see if the files were moved into there?

    Also, I second dangel's suggestion of using Task Scheduler to run apps requiring elevation at startup.

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    Re: Windows 7 (Retail) - Disappearing services / Icons?

    Perhaps you installed MySQL and Apache, they worked, but you pressed "Program did not install correctly" or something along that line? Windows would have tried to uninstall those for you. Since the daemons could be fully loaded to memory and holding onto the files it needed but not its own exe, it is not that unusual to see the exes gone.
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    Re: Windows 7 (Retail) - Disappearing services / Icons?

    Hi All,

    Thanks for the replies all

    dangel, I must admit I'm not terribly familiar with UAC other than a short tussle I had with it in Vista before nuking it into oblivion It's good to know that it's probably not the cause of the files being removed. I suppose it could be a combination of UAC denying access, and then my AV program thinking something funny is going on and taking matters into its own hands.

    I looked in the x86 program files directory last night and the folder themselves exist, and some of the files are still in there except for the exes. I am highly suspicious of my antivirus/firewall software, but it could just be a blip or something. I'm going to plug the drive in again shortly and I'll have a look in the directory CX23882-19 suggest though my hopes are not high

    The programs installed fine and there was definitely no box that said "Program did not install correctly" etc. I've installed these services/programs many, many times on XP and a few times on Vista. To be honest, I've never seen anything like this problem but I'm going to re-install tonight and really keep an eye on what is happening, that way I should be able to trace the problem to a particular step in my install.

    I'm still undecided about 64bit as I would need to buy new backup software and a new TV card (the company who makes it and the drivers went out of business so I don't hold out much hope of Win7 64 bit compatible drivers any time soon). However, 64bit would be awfully nice for use with my synths as the main library is 200gb

    Once I've got a bit further, I'll post back and let you guys know what's what.
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    Re: Windows 7 (Retail) - Disappearing services / Icons?

    Okay, I have a very strong suspicion that some kind of system roll back had occurred. As standard, there are no games on Win7, but you can of course add them. I added them last night and I checked today and they are also gone.

    I've certainly not performed any kind of system restore or roll back, so if it's happened, it's been done without my permission/knowledge. Maybe the system detected there was an issue somewhere and just did an automatic restore? I just don't know tbh. I was having issues with my sound card yesterday (would just lock up and produce white noise), which seems to be fixed now somehow.

    I couldn't be bothered with a re-install of Win7, so I've just re-installed mySQL, Apache and they seem to be working fine. I've done a few restarts/shutdowns and the services are still there so that's good news. I'm just about to install and configure PHP so that will be the last step in the chain.

    I can only surmise what might have caused this, but at the end of the day, there's bound to be bugs/errors in the first few weeks of a new OS. It's working for now, so I'll see how I get on.

    Thanks for your help/advice people
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