What Linux distro to start with?

[Jay]

the issue is that Ubuntu uses different commands to CentOS. It really depends what you want to do this for to be honest.

[oolon]

Ubuntu does? thats news to me! I think... ls, dd, emacs, httpd, lvcreate etc etc are all the same...., the difference is it uses a different package system, and some configuration files for programs have different location however as most programs on the system are the same the format of the config files are the same. Some OS config files for networking are debian based not Rh, and a few other minor differences. Like all linuxes 95% the same under the hood 5% different on the surface.

The guy wanted something for webdev so Centos would be a strong choice as many vm services offer it as an option.

Lets see now.....

Centos
[oolon@flexo ~]$ uname -a
Linux flexo.srd.co.uk 2.6.18-194.32.1.el5 #1 SMP Wed Jan 5 17:52:25 EST 2011 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[oolon@flexo ~]$ ls --version
ls (GNU coreutils) 5.97
Copyright (C) 2006 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software. You may redistribute copies of it under the terms of
the GNU General Public License <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>.
There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.

Written by Richard Stallman and David MacKenzie.
[oolon@flexo ~]$

Ubuntu
oolon@vostro400:~$ uname -a
Linux vostro400 2.6.24-19-generic #1 SMP Wed Jun 18 14:15:37 UTC 2008 x86_64 GNU/Linux
oolon@vostro400:~$ ls --version
ls (GNU coreutils) 6.10
Copyright (C) 2008 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>
This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.

Written by Richard Stallman and David MacKenzie.
oolon@vostro400:~$

Different versions yes... Ubuntu is more bleeding edge another reason to stay away in my book. Most major linuxes are signed up to a thing called lsb, the linux standards base, which describes the layout for configuration files and what programs should be installed and where. So a difference in versions is all you would expect under the hood.

[Jay]

There is no way to get around the fact that the syntax can be different between Centos and Ubuntu and so as a new starter you have to pick the correct one for your needs.

[lodore]

I would agree that for a starter distro ubuntu is probably the way to go.
most people start with ubuntu and then may progress to something slighter harder.

I have tryed most of the major distros and i am still undecided.

it really does depend what you want from a linux operating system.

i feel ubuntu changes to much each version and this tends to make it a bit unpredictable with stability.

something like debian uses more outdated software but its a rock solid work horse which doesnt change much per release. installing debian is just as easy as ubuntu. debian does less handholding. this means you will need to do a bit of google searching to get java,flash player,codecs etc to work.

if you do decide to go the debian route i can give you some guides if you tell me what you want to do with linux.

[aidanjt]

So would you say ubuntu is a kind of middle ground between hard/server (centos) and easy (mint etc)? Would be good if so as I want something somewhat challenging without inducing rage quit.

Mint is just Ubuntu with some OpenSUSE patches and a bunch of patent encumbered components and flash pre-installed. You can get the same non-free components in Ubuntu by installing ubuntu-restricted-extras.

The only not so obvious thing to keep in mind, is that if you want to play encrypted DVDs (i.e. most commercial DVDs) you need to type `sudo /usr/share/doc/libdvdread4/install-css.sh` in a shell to install the DVD decryption library. Do that after installing ubuntu-restricted-extras, as that installs the DVD video library which installs the install-css.sh script.

Not installing those by default seem as a bit of a chore, but leaving those out allows Ubuntu to distribute and do business in countries with insane patent systems (like America), and it's not that much work.

[aidanjt]

Ubuntu does?

It's mostly distro-specific things, like the RC system, package management, etc. Obviously GNU find is more or less the same on Debian as it is on Red Hat.

[billythewiz]

Ubuntu is the "obvious" answer. The ubuntu forums are brilliant and you'll (probably) have no regrets, but ....

What's been said about CentOS is true. It's Redhat at home, so it you are going to be using RHEL at work then CentOS is the obvious choice if you want to self train at home.

Mint is also great. With Mint you type www.youtube.com into firefox and it just works !! With Ubuntu you have to ... well it's complicated. You have to install a bunch of stuff, which means searching forums, trying stuff out, registering with the forums, post some questions .... You'll get there ... eventually, but it might take a while. Eventually you'll get to a stage where you can sort most of the issues in a minute or two and my post will no doubt get replies from people at that stage in their Linux life.

What I really recommend is get unetbootin, a pen drive, and empty HDD, a load of time and a sense of adventure.

Try Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Edjubuntu, CentOS, Mint, Puppy, FreeNAS, Debian, Suse and any others that you take a fancy to with cool names. There are loads to choose from. I once tried "Hanna Montana Linux" for a laugh , or at the other end of the spectrum there are other options.

Another Mint like Ubuntu variant (where everything just works out of the box) is Jolicloud. Why not have some fun and give it a try.

My point is that with an empty HDD, a memory stick and an internet connection, it's easy to try out a distro for a few days and then try something else (all for free ).

If what you have is a windows PC and you're thinking of dual booting then the first thing you should try is Wubi.
Look here for another hexite who tried it and liked it.

Thanks for the suggesitons, I went with the wubi installer because it looked so easy, and it was

[watercooled]

There are significant differenced between RHEL and Debian in some areas, for example they deal with users/authentication quite differently (a recent example from memory), differences I would say are significant enough to confuse a beginner trying to learn both simultaneously.
Unless you have an idea for a server, there's little point beginning on a CLI system IMO - you'll just be staring at a blank screen wondering what the heck to do. I'd suggest using a polished OS like Ubuntu/Fedora/OpenSuSE, depending which Linux fork you want to go down, as a desktop OS for a while, to get used to things. Then when you pick up on how things are different in Linux, come up with a scenario, for example some sort of server that would be useful, then go about setting it up on a CLI OS.

[oolon]

There are significant differenced between RHEL and Debian in some areas, for example they deal with users/authentication quite differently (a recent example from memory), differences I would say are significant enough to confuse a beginner trying to learn both simultaneously.

Uubutu and Centos both use PAM these days for user authentication. rc scripts are also the same using the LSB way of using /etc/rcX.d however the simple command to enable and disable is different. Comming from solaris its difficult for me to get out of the habit of just using rm and ln -s for that job!

PS... So there is cake watercooled.

[billythewiz]

Unless you have an idea for a server, there's little point beginning on a CLI system IMO - you'll just be staring at a blank screen wondering what the heck to do.

I agree. Most people come to Linux from Windows and if you select a server edition it will just look like DOS, except that DIR wont work

I'd suggest using a polished OS like Ubuntu/Fedora/OpenSuSE,

Again I agree, also consider Mint, Puppy, Easy Peasy.

My point about unetbootin and a flashdrive is that you (watercooled, oolon and the others), who aren't new to Linux, can easily try other distros. Give it a go. It can be fun to get away from Ubuntu's brown for a while

[watercooled]

Yeah I use unetbootin, it's also useful for installing an OS on systems without an optical drive (netbooks, for example) or just so you don't have to burn discs.

[masterplan1]

http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=06619 - use the latest dev release of Slackware, purely because it's v13.37.

But this will deter you from ever using a Linux based OS again, as Slack is rather horrid.

[Saracen]

I'd say it somewhat depends on where you're going, what you want to achieve. If you want to learn Linux from the inside out, it probably makes sense to start out learning the nuts and bolts, so that when you install an "easy" distro, you'll understand what it's doing and how to tinker with it. But that's a LOT of a challenge and for most people, a mistake. If you want to be able to admin linux systems for a career, then maybe.

But otherwise, just to learn Linux to use it as a typical user, personally, I'd suggest Ubuntu.

But I'd also suggest paying more attention to guys like aidanjt, 'cos he's 100 times more expert at linux stuff when he's fast asleep than I am when wide awake.

The best advice I can give on Linux is not to pay much attention to any advice from me on Linux. Makes me wonder why I typed this. I must be bored.

[edp]

I switched from Windows XP to Ubuntu and found it fairly easy to do most day to day things.
As just a normal PC user, web browsing, playing movies and some office things I would say that Ubuntu had everything I needed from installation.
The Ubuntu forums are great. It's a very popular distro so someone somewhere will be able to help with any queries.
As someone said before it does change with each release which is a bit annoying, if it had the same core layout and theme throughout each release it would be better, but having said that I still use it.

[shaithis]

There is no way to get around the fact that the syntax can be different between Centos and Ubuntu and so as a new starter you have to pick the correct one for your needs.

Personally, as a learner I think 2 distros with different commands would help you learn faster. Make the person think more to do a task and they will have a better understanding of it at the end.

Being able to regurgitate does not show understanding, hence we got GCSEs all those years ago.

[watercooled]

hence we got GCSEs all those years ago.

You're saying GCSEs do require understanding? And TBH even a good amount of grading for A levels is regurgitating definitions.