Hi there
I'd really love to dip into a bit of programming, it fascinates me. But the problem is.... I have no idea where to start! I have found several resources for different languages, but I don't know which one to pick, is my main problem. I'm thinking about Java... But I've also heard of Perl, VisualBasic and even C++ being suitable for competent beginners. Which do i pick?
I can only offer you general advice, I haven't done any programming for years.
What do you want to do?
This is the biggest thing to decide, the rest starts to fall into place after that. some people might be able to do it, but I found that I could never get me head around any language until I had an actual project to build, one that I actually had an interest in and wanted to complete. Back in uni we used Pascal/Delphi for a while and I really didn't get most of it through the lectures until it came to project time, then I just jumped in and worked it all out (with advice and help from tutor).
So, what do you want to do? what interests you? Dynamic websites, web apps, databases, image manipulation.... the scope is huge
Pascal and Delphi are erm, shall we say 'dated'. Delphi is Object Pascal, and its bug ridden to the point I wouldn't recommend it for anything.
"Object" in programming speak is just a design pattern that is generally considered to be a good way of expressing things, getting code re-use, and allowing problems to be broken down. See this confusing badly written wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-...ed_programming
As funkstar says often the choice of the language is dependent on what your wanting to accomplish. Some languages lend themselves to tasks better than others. For instance Python is relatively easy to learn and is quite flexible at allowing you to automate little tasks, but even some big applications have been written in it, thou myself I would never.
A language that is quite exciting at the moment is C#, its commercial (ie plenty of jobs want it) but it also has a bunch of modern language features which you don't get in C++ or Java. You can get started quite easily downloading the Visual Studio Express edition, and they have plenty of screen casts to get you started.
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
As Funkstar says, the biggest thing to decide is why you want to program. You really need a project or end product you're driving towards to make it worth the investment of time. Picking that will make a big difference to what tools you should learn first.
As TheAnimus says, C# is probably the first call for general programming these days; or Java if developing for Android interests you. The languages are quite similar (although they have enough differences to trip you up when you first move from one to the other, as I have discovered by experience), so learning one will give you a good footing in how to code well on the other.
The only thing I'd say about starting with either C# or Java as your first language (or any other inherently object oriented language, in fact) is that they need a lot of trappings - that is, you'll have to put quite a lot of extra code around the bit you're writing just to make it work. It's not a problem per se, but I've known people struggle with it. On the other hand, if your final goal is to be a developer with one of those languages, it may be just as well to jump in at the deep end
This was at Uni about 10 years ago, so not a surprise. We also did a bit of Java which was new, some assembly (i actually enjoyed that). I also did some ANSI C when I did some electronics.Originally Posted by TheAnimus
We were taught java as a starting language for precisely that reason - you have to be very explicit, the error handling is great, and it gets you into better coding practise. Better that than PERL where it just works no matter how sloppy you are, then you try a different language and suddenly wonder what's going on.
I learnt a bit of C++ at uni then went on to Matlab (not strictly computer programming I guess). Alas now the only real "programming" I get to do is VB for work. VB???? Talk about going backwards. I've ordered some slate and chisels to help take us to the next level.
VB/VBA are fine to learn on in terms of getting you to think how a computer works through a script, but IMO they are limited and teach you bad habits. It's too easy to not declare something properly and for it still to (apparently) work without actually doing what you think it is. And they're very much suited only to tweaking windows programmes (customising Excel, Access and even AutoCad and the like), rather than building something new from scratch - though I may be wrong on that. I'm no expert.
Last edited by ik9000; 11-10-2011 at 11:03 AM.
Could be worse, could be VBAI learnt a bit of C++ at uni then went on to Matlab (not strictly computer programming I guess). Alas now the only real programming I get to do is VB for work. VB???? Talk about going backwards. I've ordered some slate and chisels to help take us to the next level.
Alas, I typoed. It is indeed that bad. Take one bast@rdised set of macros that kind of work. Get lumbered with the task of fixing them. Find they're all over the shop. Cue endless evenings of own time for no overtime pay, thanks or recognition. They really should have a smiley for shooting yourself in the head.Could be worse, could be VBA
For anyone who is unfortunate enough to work with VBA for the love of all things good, USE OPTION EXPLICIT.
To an extent I agree, I just remember the faces of about 80% of my class during the first software workshop, where they were told about 8 times "You need to put this here, we'll tell you why in the second half of this term, but for now just accept that you need it here to make the program work!". Imports and class declarations and public static void main(string[] args) { } are, to a certain extent, extraneous baggage when you're trying to teach someone to be a good programmer.
Or perhaps it was just that the lecturers on my course were pants at teaching Java...
That sounds a lot like my two jobs immediately prior to doing my Master's. I can strongly recommend a year at Uni to cure of of it
Thanks for all the great replies!
Essentially I want to build up my knowledge of programming to the point where I can think about higher level stuff, like writing fully fledged applications in C++ or development for Android/iOS, for example. But I'm guessing their are stepping stones to get there... I have the time, so I don;t need to really bypass them and go head first into C++ or whatever I guess
I've heard about Python, certainly. Just automating processes on my computer, writing uber simple applications like calculators and things like that, would be a first goal, just to get in there and some hands on experience learning basic programming. From there I would like to build up over time and learn higher level languages.
Only a tiny minority of applications out there are written in C++, whilst it allows for people to write software which runs close to the metal so to say, it doesn't provide much in the way of 'modern' language features.
There is also quite a difference between writing a typical 'Desktop Application' and a smart phone App, the desktop version generally has a lot more complexity!
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
I see. Well yes, I want the diversity and skills necessary to do both!
Ah, now basic, that I remember...
01 Screen mode 0
10 Print "Hello Dave"
11 Pause
12 |tape
13 Run "excitingly titled cassette"
20 GoSub 300
25 Pause patiently for at least 1 hour,
30 Print "read error a"
31 Print "read error b"
300 Squeal like a pig. inkeys 10.
301 Chew-up tape
302 CRASH
303 Return 25
Absolutely, and thats no bad idea, just it will take a bit of effort.I see. Well yes, I want the diversity and skills necessary to do both!
When you start getting a large application, the design patterns, and layout of the code structure really become important.
Concepts such as MVC or MVVM become just as relevent as maintaing the Single Responsibility Principle. As such it takes quite a long time to 'get' these, and generally speaking understanding these things become harder, the lower level the language.
If you have something clear in mind for your first project, it might help you focus, generally speaking it takes people a little while to get their mind round "procedural programming" the generic term for all these languages mentioned so far, it is easier if you have a destination in mind. Languages only get easier the more you know and do mind, I started with BBC basic some 20 years ago now, and learning the latest faddy language never takes more than a couple of hours.
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
I'm all for a bit of effort! That's what makes it interesting!I understand it's not just an overnight thing - sure you may be able to learn language in a few months, but then mastering it of course takes I don't now how long. So I totally understand that. as for having an idea about my first project, well I'll think about it and probably post here again when I figure it out. Thanks for all your advice by the way, it is much appreciated
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