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Thread: Anyone see the problem here

  1. #1
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    Anyone see the problem here

    Not sure what forum to post this in, really... where is the Technology and Society forum?

    From the Hexus news page (quoting Out-law.com - BBC also has the story)
    If spam is the computer user's number one enemy, then spyware is ranked a close second. Fortunately, steps are being made towards making it illegal for spyware to install itself on a PC without the user's knowledge.
    and from SecurityFocus (regarding copy-protected CD's - specifically the Beastie Boys new album - remember them?)
    It seems that Capitol Records has some sort of new copy protection system, that automatically, silently, installs “helpful” copy protection software on MacOS and Windows as soon as you insert the CD into default systems. I’m not sure exactly what it does yet, but I am sure regreting actually purchasing said media now… they don’t deserve my money if they choose to pull stupid stunts like this.
    How can the record industry justify this action, and still expect users to listen to their calls to respect IP? Surely respect has to be two-way? Does anyone else feel like they are being treated like second-class citizens? "Respect our rights while we tread all over yours, eh?", well.. if that's the way they want to play it...

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    F.A.S.T. Butuz's Avatar
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    Just press and hold shift when you put in one of those CD's and the autorun will not install and so the copyright software will not be installed.

    I am sure there is some kinda legal thing here - installing software on somones PC without them knowing or accepting any terms and conditions is sureley the behaviour of a virus?

    Butuz

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    Ex-MSFT Paul Adams's Avatar
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    The first thing talks about spyware, and how the US want to make it illegal to silently install software which has the purpose of gathering and transmitting information on the user to a 3rd party.

    The second thing is talking about copy protection.

    The 2 things aren't related, or was your post to indicate they should be?
    Either way, they should not have focused solely on spyware, but any software at all - they could have covered those stupid porn diallers at the same time that way.

    The silent installation of anything on your own computer should be made entirely illegal (and maybe impossible due to the OS), and it would be if it was up to me.
    I always have autorun turned off for CD/DVD drives because it very rarely does anything useful - if it's a game it comes up with the installation screen... even when it's already installed, for example.

    I would imagine the next wave of utilities to hit the market will be "silent install killers" that sit and watch for things like this Capitol Records garbage and shove them in the bin.
    I would not be averse to such a utility, I must admit - this company is way out of line on this one.


    The ability for software to not run due to the presence of other software on the system is something else again, and I must admit I'm kind of on the fence on this one.
    Far Cry is the one that springs to mind - apparently a number of people couldn't run it after installation as it looks for CD/DVD cloning/emulation software and just spits the dummy (but backfired a bit as some legitimate users couldn't run it either).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Adams
    The first thing talks about spyware, and how the US want to make it illegal to silently install software which has the purpose of gathering and transmitting information on the user to a 3rd party.

    The second thing is talking about copy protection.

    The 2 things aren't related, or was your post to indicate they should be?
    Either way, they should not have focused solely on spyware, but any software at all - they could have covered those stupid porn diallers at the same time that way.
    My point is the same as your third paragraph. Why should anyone have the right to install anything on my computer without my permission? If spyware is so bad as to make it illegal, then all software that installs itself without authorisation should be illegal. Which makes the record industry little better than a bunch of crooks.

    I guess my real point is that the record industry is contributing to the problem of fairly compensating recording artists for their work, rather than helping to solve it.

    A completely separate example. I looked at HMV.com yesterday... they have recently started selling iPods, and have also launched a legal music download service. iPods will play MP3 and AAC files. HMV music downloads are protected WMAs, which won't play on an iPod, and can't be converted to something which will play on an iPod either (at least not until someone breaks the Microsoft DRM protection in WMA files).

    There's no warning that music player that HMV sells won't play the music that HMV sells. They get you're money. You get zip all. Not only that, but (as an example) "Stripped" by Christina Aguilera is £9.99 on CD, which you can listen to on your PC, on your stereo, rip to MP3 and listen to on your iPod (or car, or Xbox or wherever) - but it costs £19.80 to download "Stripped" as protected WMA that you can only listen to on your PC.

    Now can anyone else see the problem with that little arrangement?

    As a (failed, admittedly) musician, I used to hav sympathy for the music industry. I haven't got much left.
    Last edited by oyster; 21-06-2004 at 04:12 PM.

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    Ex-MSFT Paul Adams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oyster
    My point is the same as your third paragraph.
    Okay, I wasn't sure if you were saying the 2 things were contradictory or pointing out the wonderful double-standard that they introduced.
    Definitely no argument here though, it's an underhanded tactic and it must be putting them in a strange legal position - what if the installation of their software caused a problem on someone's PC?
    They are liable, but would they take responsibility for it?

    I know for a fact that our legal department would not let us put instructions in our FAQ for how to upgrade people's browsers to work best with the website - they would only allow us to point them to the relevant companies' websites to make their own mistakes, lest we be liable (and get lots of support calls).

    Forced, silent installation of software on users' PCs has got to be putting them on very shaky ground.
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    The main thing these companys that install spyware always say is "oh don't worry it's their to help us provide a better service for you.. Honest"
    Well i say if it's supposed to be oh so good and nice, and helpfull, then why do you have to sneak it onto our comps.. hu ?

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