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Thread: Windows 7 Reinstallation Disc?

  1. #33
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    Re: Windows 7 Reinstallation Disc?

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    I'm pretty sure MS won't demand the return of your install discs. You pay for the right to use the software in accordance with the terms and conditions stipulated in the EULA. If you breach that contract MS are quite entitled to withdraw your right to use the software.
    No, they're not entitled anything of the kind. The license itself is the lawful property of the purchaser, permanently depriving someone of their lawful property is theft. That's a criminal act. License terms do not supersede law.

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    Which is, if course, one of the most contentious issues with software - it lies somewhere between a retail purchase and a service contract. When you buy a copy of software you don't buy the software outright, and it's not yours to do with as you please - it's not like buying an MP3 player or a toaster. But because you buy it in a nice box from a shop you feel like it should be...
    What part of "Again, license terms can not override your statutory rights, or any other laws passed by parliament." did you miss?

    Just for kicks, one more time: Copyright agreements are not the law. Copyright agreements do not overrule the law.

    If Microsoft feels that your violating the conditions of the EULA has cause them some kind of harm, they're well within their rights to sue you for damages caused, but they'd have a hell of a hard time proving any such damages simply by transferring the license from one machine to another. Which is probably why they've *never* sued *anyone* in Europe for doing so.

    But what they're not entitled to in any way is to permanently deprive people of their lawfully acquired property. It'd be like Amazon bursting down your door and taking your book back simply because you moved the book from one shelf to another, or read it through unapproved glasses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    ...every time Creative bring out a new card range their advertising makes it sound like they have discovered a way to insert a thousand Chuck Norris super dwarfs in your ears...

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    Re: Windows 7 Reinstallation Disc?

    A license agreement is a legally binding contract. If you break a contract, the other party can terminate your rights under that contract. Stop thinking of this as retail/property law, it's not. It's contract law.

    Also don't confuse revoking your right to use the software with actually stopping you using the software. That's an entirely different matter. Sure, Microsoft can't come into your house and seize computers with an infringing OS, or force you to wipe them, but that doesn't automatically grant you a right to use the software. What it does mean, is if you continue using the software you do so without permission, and if MS did sue you (after notifying you that they were revoking your license) your continued use after the revocation of the license would probably count against you. But that's hypothetical, because (as you pointed out) MS haven't sued any individual for breach of EULA (yet, and AFAIK).

    Saying Microsoft revoking your rights to use software is like Amazon breaking down doors is tabloid-level sensationalist hyperbole. And wrong. But as I said, it's where a lot of the confusion comes from, because people want to treat software as property, and it really isn't.

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    Re: Windows 7 Reinstallation Disc?

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    A license agreement is a legally binding contract. If you break a contract, the other party can terminate your rights under that contract. Stop thinking of this as retail/property law, it's not. It's contract law.
    You can't claim intellectual property is property and say it's not property unless you say so. It's either property or it isn't. No contract can hijack your property on a whim. Remember, (for the gazillionth time) law supersedes contracts. Microsoft can't lay claim to your first born simply because it's in the Windows EULA. They can't help themselves to your house simply because it's in the EULA.

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    Also don't confuse revoking your right to use the software with actually stopping you using the software. That's an entirely different matter. Sure, Microsoft can't come into your house and seize computers with an infringing OS, or force you to wipe them, but that doesn't automatically grant you a right to use the software. What it does mean, is if you continue using the software you do so without permission, and if MS did sue you (after notifying you that they were revoking your license) your continued use after the revocation of the license would probably count against you. But that's hypothetical, because (as you pointed out) MS haven't sued any individual for breach of EULA (yet, and AFAIK).
    WTH? No, they're not, they're really really not. The right to use your property as you see fit is inherent to owning it. Just as ownership of a book gives you the right to do whatever the hell you like with it, bar making copies and selling it for personal gain, of course, that's covered by copyright law.

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    Saying Microsoft revoking your rights to use software is like Amazon breaking down doors is tabloid-level sensationalist hyperbole. And wrong.
    It's not sensationalist at all. It's a physical analogy to disabling software you paid for. You're simply not comprehending the extent of the property theft.

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    But as I said, it's where a lot of the confusion comes from, because people want to treat software as property, and it really isn't.
    If it's not property then it can't be stolen. That's easily contested due to the fact that you can steal/copy someone else's individual and specific license to a piece of software, there's even a unique code which serialises licenses.

    You can't give intellectual property property duality just when it suits you, that's just irrational. And if you're paying someone money in exchange for non-property, then you're being defrauded. So which is it?
    Last edited by aidanjt; 20-07-2012 at 04:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    ...every time Creative bring out a new card range their advertising makes it sound like they have discovered a way to insert a thousand Chuck Norris super dwarfs in your ears...

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