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Thread: Unable to install Win7 with a GPT drive

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    Re: Unable to install Win7 with a GPT drive

    Quote Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

    Since you stated it that way, why was I able to get a drive formatted to GPT that only has data on it, no O/S? The drive that I didn't care if it was MBR or GPT.
    as he says you can use windows or similar to format a non-bootable data drive as GPT. it gives you more flexibility regarding partitions and their sizes, and is essential if you have a large HDD. I think GPT lets you have greater ability to resize partitions without wiping the drive and losing data on it too.

    I did this on mine SSD is standard MBR but all HDD are GPT.

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    Re: Unable to install Win7 with a GPT drive

    Quote Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
    Yes I do which is the reason for the original question.
    Yes the MB is a UEFI or I wouldn't of posted this.

    The reason for the question regarding AHCI is, there is no other 'switch' available regarding the UEFI function. What I don't understand what a optical drive has to do with anything regarding install the O/S in GPT mode (for lack of a better term). Sounds as another typical M$ screwup.

    .It surely doesn't get me a GPT formatted disc that has a O/S on it.

    Since you stated it that way, why was I able to get a drive formatted to GPT that only has data on it, no O/S? The drive that I didn't care if it was MBR or GPT.
    I think this has been covered by both directhex's excellent explanation of the differences between UEFI booting and MBR booting, and other posts in the thread... but here goes...

    Windows seven, when booted and running 'understands' GPT partitioned disks, and can create file systems on them, in exactly the same way as it can to MBR based partitioning systems.

    To boot from a motherboard with UEFI compliant firmware installed, the boot loader must be able to interoperate with that firmware, and install the appropriate boot files in the UEFI boot partition on the drive.

    If you are installing from an optical drive (and effectively booting from an installation loader,)that optical drive also has to have a UEFI aware partition on it.

    Directhex has explained how to determine if (in a windows 7 64 bit system) if you are using UEFI booting or MBR booting.

    If you are using alternative boot loaders, such as Grub2, Chimera, Chameleon, or whatever, that are UEFI aware, they need access to the UEFI files and be able to create/use the appropriate UEFI partitions to load the operating system. Bootloaders are effectively mini operating systems in their own right, which have one purpose, to initialise the main operating system, whatever make, flavour or type. The motherboard firmware has one purpose in life, to initialise motherboard components before handing over control to the boot loader.

    If you are unable to achieve this using the tools and methods you have described, then there are three possibilities

    a. The tools, or hardware or software are not capable of doing what you want

    However if others have achieved what you you are trying to achieve with the same tools and equipment

    b. You are either not using the tools correctly

    or

    c. There is a fault with either the software or the firmware on your motherboard.

    BTW, there also seems to be a fault on your keyboard, as it throws up random $ signs.
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    Re: Unable to install Win7 with a GPT drive

    Quote Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
    Yes I do which is the reason for the original question.
    Yes the MB is a UEFI or I wouldn't of posted this.

    The reason for the question regarding AHCI is, there is no other 'switch' available regarding the UEFI function. What I don't understand what a optical drive has to do with anything regarding install the O/S in GPT mode (for lack of a better term). Sounds as another typical M$ screwup.
    AHCI isn't a switch that has anything to do with UEFI/MBR type installs. Its perfectly possible to install in UEFI mode with that flag set in either setting.

    .It surely doesn't get me a GPT formatted disc that has a O/S on it.

    Since you stated it that way, why was I able to get a drive formatted to GPT that only has data on it, no O/S? The drive that I didn't care if it was MBR or GPT.
    Because thats a completely different thing. What you're looking for is the bootloader to be configured differently which is what gives the advantages, not the partition table.

    As we've all said a couple of times, its pretty likely your install media isn't configured correctly. I'm not sure anyone else would go to the effort of slipstreaming, as installing drivers takes next to no time, and, IME takes less time than slipstreaming & remastering the ISO.

    Just to exhaust the possibility you should try booting from your original windows media then follow the instructions in post #3 to determine how its loaded.

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    Re: Unable to install Win7 with a GPT drive

    Quote Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
    What I don't understand what a optical drive has to do with anything regarding install the O/S in GPT mode (for lack of a better term). Sounds as another typical M$ screwup.
    You need to boot the installer in UEFI mode (i.e. your motherboard needs to execute the file EFI/Boot/bootx64.efi from the disc, NOT execute the 8086 machine code stored as an El-Torito floppy disk image embedded in the disc headers), in order to be able to install to GPT.

    BIOS-booted installer -> cannot install to GPT.

    And we already determined that you're using a tool, RT Se7en Lite, which can only generate BIOS-bootable media, because its developers are lazy assholes.

    Either use valid UEFI-bootable Windows install media (e.g. as provided by Microsoft), or boot an EFI shell from a USB stick and run the Windows 8 boot loader from inside there (which works around bootability issues on the install media itself)

    edit: I don't know how much RT Se7en Lite is automating, but http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l...(v=ws.10).aspx step 3 details the command line arguments to pass oscdimg.exe, the official Microsoft Windows ISO creation command, to create either BIOS-only, UEFI-only, or both-compatible install media.
    Last edited by directhex; 22-11-2013 at 11:43 AM.

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    Re: Unable to install Win7 with a GPT drive

    Quote Originally Posted by directhex View Post

    And we already determined that you're using a tool, RT Se7en Lite, which can only generate BIOS-bootable media, because its developers are lazy assholes.
    this seems to be the crux of the issue. You need to use a different tool. kapow.

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    Re: Unable to install Win7 with a GPT drive

    that optical drive also has to have a UEFI aware partition on it.
    The optical drive needs a partition or the SSD or HDD the O/S is being loaded to?
    .
    To boot from a motherboard with UEFI compliant firmware installed, the boot loader must be able to interoperate with that firmware, and install the appropriate boot files in the UEFI boot partition on the drive.
    And the bootloader is within the O/S installation files, correct?
    .
    If you are using alternative boot loaders, such as Grub2, Chimera, Chameleon, or whatever, that are UEFI aware, they need access to the UEFI files and be able to create/use the appropriate UEFI partitions to load the operating system.
    I have heard of the 1st, the other two I never heard of, but in any case never used any.
    .
    If you are unable to achieve this using the tools and methods you have described, then there are three possibilities
    a. The tools, or hardware or software are not capable of doing what you want
    However if others have achieved what you you are trying to achieve with the same tools and equipment
    b. You are either not using the tools correctly
    or
    c. There is a fault with either the software or the firmware on your motherboard.
    Problem is, which one. I don't know if anyone with the same or similar board has been successful.
    .
    BTW, there also seems to be a fault on your keyboard, as it throws up random $ signs.
    No fault, nor are they random!
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    Re: Unable to install Win7 with a GPT drive

    Quote Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
    The optical drive needs a partition or the SSD or HDD the O/S is being loaded to?
    The install media.

    If you were using proper EFI-capable install media, you'd be done by now.

    Did an EFI install of Windows 7 yesterday. Just set the firmware to EFI-only, put the DVD in the drive, and booted. Nothing more to it.

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    Re: Unable to install Win7 with a GPT drive

    Quote Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
    .And the bootloader is within the O/S installation files, correct?
    The boot loader is something which forms part of the OS install media, and is installed by the OS installer. In the case of an EFI install, it's in the EFI/ folder on the root of the disc.

    Problem is, which one. I don't know if anyone with the same or similar board has been successful.
    You've never named the board, so hard to tell.

    But I can state from experience that proper (original Microsoft) Windows 7 SP1 x64 install media works in UEFI mode on an Asus P8P67-M, Gigabyte GA-Z68A-D3-B3, and various Lenovo laptops.

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    Re: Unable to install Win7 with a GPT drive

    I've also never had a problem with it on 3 different asus boards and a couple of different dell laptops.

    Why don' you just put the original media in the drive and boot it?

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    Re: Unable to install Win7 with a GPT drive

    I'm not sure anyone else would go to the effort of slipstreaming, as installing drivers takes next to no time, and, IME takes less time than slipstreaming & remastering the ISO.
    1. I'm not slipstreaming as I already have Win7 with sp1 installed.
    2. I also do not add specific drivers since many get outdated fast and are only good for specific installations.

    The reason I use programs like nLite and now RT7 Lite is
    1. To bypass all of those annoying user intervention boxes that pop up,
    2. To removed outdated and unnecessary drivers,
    3. To remove unnecessary media files (unfortunately TR7 Lite doesn't do this well)
    4. To remove features and services that I have no use for (yes I'm careful with what services I remove)
    5. To set a default set of service states (using Black Viper's "tweaked' list")
    6. Additional customizing.

    .
    Just set the firmware to EFI-only
    And this is done where??

    .
    Why don' you just put the original media in the drive and boot it?
    See the above list. But, I will try that.

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    Re: Unable to install Win7 with a GPT drive

    Quote Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
    4. To remove features and services that I have no use for (yes I'm careful with what services I remove)
    Are you careful to have remastered an EFI-bootable image, not a BIOS-only image?

    .And this is done where??

    My board is a AMD based 970 chipset: ASRock 970 Extreme4
    From the "boot" tab.

    Pick your boot order priority #1 as the UEFI version of your installer, not the BIOS version:



    Above, at 5:18, note that they list "USB: KingstonDataTraveller2.0" and "UEFI: KingstonDataTraveller2.0" - these are both the same physical install disk, but the "USB" entry is for the BIOS boot record and the "UEFI" entry is for the UEFI boot record.

    i.e. what we've been telling you for 2 weeks.

    Asrock uses a skinned American Megatrends Aptio UEFI firmware. You'll see an identical interface in many other brands of board.

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    Re: Unable to install Win7 with a GPT drive

    Quote Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
    1. I'm not slipstreaming as I already have Win7 with sp1 installed.
    2. I also do not add specific drivers since many get outdated fast and are only good for specific installations.

    The reason I use programs like nLite and now RT7 Lite is
    1. To bypass all of those annoying user intervention boxes that pop up,
    2. To removed outdated and unnecessary drivers,
    3. To remove unnecessary media files (unfortunately TR7 Lite doesn't do this well)
    4. To remove features and services that I have no use for (yes I'm careful with what services I remove)
    5. To set a default set of service states (using Black Viper's "tweaked' list")
    6. Additional customizing.

    .And this is done where??

    .See the above list. But, I will try that.

    My board is a AMD based 970 chipset: ASRock 970 Extreme4
    So to save yourself "unnecessary" features you are going to the unnecessary time, hassle, and frustration that comes with not simply inserting the win7 DVD and clicking "install"? Mate, skewed priorities. You're like someone who drives 10 miles because the item is £2.99 cheaper, but forgets to consider the extra time and petrol involved in doing so. Just quit while you're behind and use the windows disc like everyone is suggesting. You'll have a working system again in no time. If you really must then tweak the thing, use one of the tools out there to customise it post-install. It's not that difficult, msconfig is a good place to start. TBH though given how much trouble you seem to be having I'd recommend just sticking with plain, untinkered, default windows.

    I'm signing off this thread now. I am beginning to feel like we're all bashing our heads against the wall. As an aside, anyone recall these little fellas? They keep popping in my head for some reason.


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    Re: Unable to install Win7 with a GPT drive

    This forum isn't the fastest to notify of new posts or I would of been back sooner.

    Are you careful to have remastered an EFI-bootable image, not a BIOS-only image?
    How can you tell the difference?
    Pick your boot order priority #1 as the UEFI version of your installer, not the BIOS version:
    This apparently is/was the problem since I was unaware of the need to do such a thing, since there never was such a choice. I also never saw anything about this anywhere until now after months of research.
    Above, at 5:18, note that they list "USB: KingstonDataTraveller2.0" and "UEFI: KingstonDataTraveller2.0" - these are both the same physical install disk, but the "USB" entry is for the BIOS boot record and the "UEFI" entry is for the UEFI boot record.
    i.e. what we've been telling you for 2 weeks.
    Sorry, but I didn't understand what you were talking about. I always had the optical drive 1st to boot and never had any problem. I didn't know you had to stand on you head to get this stuff to work.

    I did the USB procedure (diskpart & adding moving and renaming those boot files) with a untouched copy of W7 and it worked.
    I then removed those files, replacing them with the same RT7 Lite modified copy that didn't work in that same USB drive and that worked!
    Last edited by videobruce; 01-12-2013 at 03:28 PM.
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    Re: Unable to install Win7 with a GPT drive

    Result! Glad you got it sorted (and I learned a few things too!)
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    Re: Unable to install Win7 with a GPT drive

    Taking a step back, I will respond to the previous comments oin this thread;

    Windows will only install to a GPT drive if:
    It is a 64-bit version of Windows
    The installer was booted in UEFI mode
    The 64bit I knew, using a UEFI based MB I knew, the "booted in UEFI" I didn't and this is a major problem.

    .
    Windows makes it really hard to tell whether the installer is booted in UEFI mode or BIOS mode
    Actually no. When you are in the installer screen where the drive is formatted and you choose the partition size, if the results show three partitions, you know it created a GPT partition. If only two, it's still a MBR drive. At least it was that way for me.

    .
    you picked the wrong device to boot from (typically UEFI motherboards will show the DVD drive twice when that drive contains a UEFI record and a BIOS record - you need to ensure you boot from the UEFI record. It may be listed as something like "Windows Boot Manager")
    I missed reading this and I now see the duplication of the drives which I didn't have before which is not just confusing, but it doesn't makes sense.

    .
    If you have a USB stick, and your installer definitely isn't booting in UEFI mode, you can cheat it by booting an UEFI shell or other modifiable boot loader (e.g. GRUB) from USB, then using that to run fsX:\EFI\Microsoft\bootx64.efi from the install disk (even if the boot records are not correct, the actual files themselves should be in place).
    I had no idea what you were talking about, due I do now. Sort of.

    .
    Thats your problem then. RT se7en doesn't (or at least I couldn't make it when I tried about a month ago) produce a UEFI bootable image.
    Unfortunately that is correct. But there is a work around, that was never mentioned there which was loosely mentioned here.

    .
    When making a bootable CD, UEFI bootable CDs/DVDs consist of an ISO9660 or UDF disk image with the bulk of the data, plus an additional FAT32 disk volume containing the EFI boot loader, using the Hybrid Disc specification.
    It is possible to make a CD/DVD which contains both an El Torito BIOS boot record *and* a Hybrid UEFI boot record.
    That was a mouthful, which at the time was over my head (which was and still is spinning.

    .
    To boot from a motherboard with UEFI compliant firmware installed, the boot loader must be able to interoperate with that firmware, and install the appropriate boot files in the UEFI boot partition on the drive.
    If you are installing from an optical drive (and effectively booting from an installation loader,)that optical drive also has to have a UEFI aware partition on it.
    This is what I still don't understanding what the hell does a optical or USB drive have to do with anything. All of this should be in the installer package where one can decide if the install will be GPT or MBR. This may be a poor example, but it's almost like saying, if you want Win7 Home you have to install it from a optical drive, but if you want Win7 Professional, it has to be installed from a USB drive.

    .
    AHCI isn't a switch that has anything to do with UEFI/MBR type installs.
    I thought it had something to do with this, not directly though.

    .
    You need to boot the installer in UEFI mode (i.e. your motherboard needs to execute the file EFI/Boot/bootx64.efi from the disc, NOT execute the 8086 machine code stored as an El-Torito floppy disk image embedded in the disc headers), in order to be able to install to GPT.
    Why can't that be done within the installer? Why does it have to be before? All the initial data that is pulled of the install media is stored in RAM isn't it until the actual install proceeds isn't it?

    .
    Last edited by videobruce; 01-12-2013 at 03:13 PM.
    When not in use, turn off the juice.
    Think of someone else instead of just yourself. There is far more to it than your utility bill.

  19. #32
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    Re: Unable to install Win7 with a GPT drive

    Regarding that link that was provided for that thread over at anandtech,
    DISKPART
    LIST DISK
    SELECT DISK 1
    CLEAN
    CREATE PARTITION PRIMARY
    SELECT PARTITION 1
    ACTIVE
    FORMAT /Q FS=NTFS
    ASSIGN
    EXIT
    D:/BOOT/BOOTSECT.EXE /NT60 U:
    The format line is wrong. It should read: "FORMAT FS=NTFS QUICK"
    Second, I'm not sure all of this is necessary.

    The apparent 'key' to all of this is;
    Obtain a copy of the file: bootmgfw.efi
    It is located in the following directory on a system running Windows 7 64-bit: \Windows\Boot\EFI

    Find the following directory on your USB installer: \efi\microsoft\boot
    Create the directory: \efi\boot

    Copy the contents of the \efi\microsoft\boot directory to the \efi\boot directory.

    Copy the bootmgfw.efi file to \efi\boot, and rename it to bootx64.efi.
    Then why didn't MS write it this way in the first place??

    I'm still testing, but my last copy of RT7 Lite Win7 did install off the USB stick. I next will try a DVD install.
    When not in use, turn off the juice.
    Think of someone else instead of just yourself. There is far more to it than your utility bill.

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