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Thread: ISO/disc imaging for personal library?

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    MCRN Tachi Ttaskmaster's Avatar
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    ISO/disc imaging for personal library?

    Hi all,

    I'd like to ask a couple of questions about software that will convert *both* CD-ROMs and DVDs (but not BluRay) to electronic disc image files.

    I'm running out of space and so was planning on putting all my DVDs (a good 2,000 or so) on to a hard drive library anyway... but I recently went to install a couple of favourite old games and found the discs could no longer be read!!

    Worse still, these are titles I couldn't even find on places like GoG.com.

    I understand this may be a legal, but grey area with regard to copying media I already own for personal use/backup - What's the general line on this?

    I'm guessing I'll want ISO files for all these rather than just something like MKV-Maker, as I want all the DVD special features (I like my collectors editions) retained as well?


    I'd prefer an app that is straightforward and can just copy the discs to file. File size and storage space is not too much of a concern.

    What are people's thoughts and advice?


    Cheers,
    Tasky.

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    Re: ISO/disc imaging for personal library?

    Legally, it's a grey area, but provided you own (and keep) the original media, you are technically allowed to make a personal backup.

    As for Hexus rules, it might be a bit more of a grey area..

    If someone can confirm it's alright to go in to detail about exactly _how_ you'd back up your various forms of media then I'll go in to that.

    As a general comment, most DVD videos have CSS protection on them, so a normal "copy to ISO" tool won't be enough. If you are backing up games, then there are a whole host of copy protections that'll render your backups useless without taking additional steps.

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    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Re: ISO/disc imaging for personal library?

    Copying material for which you own the copyright is permitted. Copying material for which you don't own the copyright is not.

    HEXUS does not condone or support illegal copying of copyright material, or methods of circumventing copy protection methods, or signposts to links that purport to facilitate the circumvention of copy protection methods.
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    MCRN Tachi Ttaskmaster's Avatar
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    Re: ISO/disc imaging for personal library?

    Aaaand I'm guessing these copyrights do not extend to personal backups, or anything, like it does with music CDs?
    Weird how that one works...

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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: ISO/disc imaging for personal library?

    Quote Originally Posted by virtuo View Post
    Legally, it's a grey area, but provided you own (and keep) the original media, you are technically allowed to make a personal backup.
    Not in the UK you're not. The simplest thing is Peter's answer below yours - if you own the copyright to the content (or have permission from the copyright owner) then you're fine. In terms of software there is often provision in the T&Cs for backup media, largely because it would be illegal for them to prevent it in certain countries and they can't be bothered to create different contracts between English speaking markets. But there's no right to a personal backup for any and all media in the UK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    Aaaand I'm guessing these copyrights do not extend to personal backups, or anything, like it does with music CDs?
    Weird how that one works...
    Yes they still apply. If something is copyright then in general you are not allowed to make a personal backup. There are specific exceptions in the copyright act for specific media types and specific situations. See Saracen's answer

    Enforcement is another matter, as, for the specific case of music format shifting for personal use, the publishers and public prosecutors etc. have effectively decided not to enforce it. However lack of enforcement with regard to a personal situation (especially in other, non music areas) doesn't provide Hexus with enough for a waiver for their legal responsibilities as a site that wants to remain providing a service and not hiring lawyers
    Last edited by kalniel; 26-02-2014 at 03:14 PM.

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    Re: ISO/disc imaging for personal library?

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    See Saracen's answer
    Seems to have vanished?

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    Enforcement is another matter, as, for the specific case of music format shifting for personal use, the publishers and public prosecutors etc. have effectively decided not to enforce it.
    Is that how Microsoft are able to supply Windows Media that can blatantly rip music CDs to the Library, then?

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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: ISO/disc imaging for personal library?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    Seems to have vanished?
    Wait for it, it's usually worth it

    Is that how Microsoft are able to supply Windows Media that can blatantly rip music CDs to the Library, then?
    And Apple etc. They design them for the US laws, but always state that you must use the software only in conjunction with the laws that are applicable to where you live.

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    Re: ISO/disc imaging for personal library?

    This is the most recent relevant answer I could find


    http://forums.hexus.net/hexus-news/2...ies-media.html

    AFIK, this proposal has not been implemented.
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    Re: ISO/disc imaging for personal library?

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    .... See Saracen's answer
    Pretty much, what you said.

    In the UK (other jurisdictions vary), copying even DVD/CDs you own isn't permitted. The single exception is necessary backups of compyter software. But audio/video material isn't covered by that exception.

    To copy material protected by copyright, you either need permission from the copyright holder, OR the copying to be one of a fairly limited set of exemptions, like that backup of computer software exemption, or limited academic use, news or reviews, use by courts, or time-shifting of broadcast transmissions, etc.

    It was certainly proposed, several years ago, in a White Paper for government that personal copies/format-shifting etc should be an exemption, but it didn't make it into the Bill that became law. And, unless I've missed it, hasn't since.

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    Re: ISO/disc imaging for personal library?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    Seems to have vanished?


    Is that how Microsoft are able to supply Windows Media that can blatantly rip music CDs to the Library, then?
    Nah, just out this afternoon.

    As for MS, there's a distinction between marketing something that can be used illegally, and something that pretty much can only be used illegally.

    Copyright-wise, this argument was dealt with in the courts several decades ago, both over vudeo recorders (in ancient history, when it involved tape), and over dual-cassette decks, with a "dub" facility from A to B. In that latter case, that fjnction is pretty much only usable for copying a cassette.

    BUT .... it can be used perfectly legally.

    In that dual cassette case, I can record my own songs, and use it to do you a copy (if you're a masochist, and being tone deaf would help). Or, it could be a tape of a lecture, or any number of other things where I own the copyright, or explicitly have permission.

    The same logic applues to software that can copy discs. I might put photos from a wedding shoot on disc, and then copy the discs. I could even use a disk copier to copy multiple copies from one source disc, at a time. And, providing I own the copyright, or have permission from however does, it's legal.

    However, software that will copy AND break/remove explicit copy protection is another matter. That involves two issues. First, copyright infringement which is usually a civil matter, and mwnufacturing, importing or marketing means for removing or bypassing "technological measures" designed to protect copyright, which is usually criminal.

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    Re: ISO/disc imaging for personal library?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    in ancient history, when it involved tape
    Ancient history...??!!
    *looks over at his Betamax and VHS players... looks back... shrugs*

    So in short, I'm stuck trying to store and organise a few thousand DVDs, and have now lost those old games unless GoG or similar start selling them?
    If it weren't bad form to use bad language on the forum, I'd be treating you to some words you've probably not even heard yet!!

    Ah well... Thanks for the help, everyone!

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    Re: ISO/disc imaging for personal library?

    Sarcasm-detector failure? I too have lots of tape. But, tried buying a decent new VHS player recently? Or, on the high street, blank tape?

    Besides, what you do with your collection is your choice. What we're telling you is what's legal and what isn't, and that of course, informs what we will allow to be discussed here.

    But, finding advice and/or software to image/RIP isn't exactly a major technical challenge. 15 seconds with Google should do it. We just don't allow it here.

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    Re: ISO/disc imaging for personal library?

    ah the old DVD back-up legality conundrum. An automatic winner for examples of a guordian knot if ever there was one.

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    Re: ISO/disc imaging for personal library?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    Sarcasm-detector failure?
    Nah, just laughing about the 'ancient history' comment. I'm old enough to have bought Suzi Quatro records NEW on vinyl, so video cassettes are still fresh in my memory - Heck, I only recently learned that cars no longer come with a manual choke!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    But, tried buying a decent new VHS player recently?
    Actually... yes, I did manage to find a good one. Admitedly it has a DVD recordy thing in it as well, but I can hook it up to the PC with a TV card and watch (convert) all my old tapes on a 27" screen from the comfort of my swivel chair!

    Actually, what about those companies who convert tapes to DVD and such - How is their business legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    Or, on the high street, blank tape?
    I don't do High Streets. Too many people... and there's nothing on TV worth taping any more, heh heh!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    But, finding advice and/or software to image/RIP isn't exactly a major technical challenge. 15 seconds with Google should do it. We just don't allow it here.
    No no, that's fair enough and do I appreciate all responses to my OP. I only asked on the forum as I'd value the opinions of people here rather than sifting through the spam-laden junk that crops up on Google.

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    Re: ISO/disc imaging for personal library?

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    ah the old DVD back-up legality conundrum. An automatic winner for examples of a gordian knot if ever there was one.
    Wikipedia has some great pages that explain the myth of the Gordian knot for anyone who is interested. I shan't post the links, not got time, but a quick google on gordion knot and it will auto list the relevant pages. Alexander the Great sure was a lateral thinker.

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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: ISO/disc imaging for personal library?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    Actually, what about those companies who convert tapes to DVD and such - How is their business legal?
    Simple - they only convert tapes you have the copyright for. It's a service designed for home-made tapes in the most part.

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