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Thread: Windows 7 RETAIL upgrade to Windows 10

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    Windows 7 RETAIL upgrade to Windows 10

    Hi all,

    OK, so I've read about the 1-year upgrade offer for Windows 7 users to Windows 10.

    I've got the full retail version of Windows 7, which allows me to transfer it from computer to computer, as long as it is only ever on one PC. I'm slightly worried by the wording of the upgrade offer as "for the lifetime of the device".

    Is this a way of Microsoft getting people to swap their retail Win 7 for OEM Win 10, so when their computer breaks, a new Win 10 purchase will be required because it will likely be over a year later? If that's the case, think I'll stick with Win 7 until it stops being supported, about 2017 I think.

    Anyone know if I've mis-understood this? Microsoft seem to be a bit cagey with the details of this Upgrade offer....

    Cheers!

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    Re: Windows 7 RETAIL upgrade to Windows 10

    Only a fool would install a brand new OS. Wait a few months at least.

    Ie don't test it for them. Stick to something that works.

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    Re: Windows 7 RETAIL upgrade to Windows 10

    Hi Abaxas,

    I wasn't intending on doing it immediately! I'm just worried that the Win 10 you "upgrade" to only has an OEM license, and so becomes fixed to that computer.

    Cheers!

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    Re: Windows 7 RETAIL upgrade to Windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by maverick77_uk View Post
    Hi Abaxas,

    I wasn't intending on doing it immediately! I'm just worried that the Win 10 you "upgrade" to only has an OEM license, and so becomes fixed to that computer.

    Cheers!
    Nobody is going to be able to give you a 100% accurate answer before July 29th, unless they work for Microsoft. There's been a lot of fixation on the 'for the life of the machine' comment, and almost no coverage on the backtracking from others at MS. Regardless, your retail license is just that - a license (and a contract), and they cannot (legally) shift the terms of that license without your approval. Evil empire or not, MS is not capable of going against the law, especially with the consumer protections in the EU.

    Suffice it to say that a lot of what people are saying is FUD, without any basis in reality. Some have posted outright lies. Your best answer is to wait until the official release, at which point, there will be nothing hidden (real or perceived).

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    Re: Windows 7 RETAIL upgrade to Windows 10

    Someone sticky this somewhere, please -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ars Technica
    Windows 10 will be offered as a free upgrade to most Windows 7 and 8 users for one year after its July 29 launch. This has led, inevitably, to a number of questions about what happens to those who want or need to reinstall their operating system.

    Microsoft's Gabe Aul has provided some much-needed clarification on this issue. On Twitter he confirmed that once upgraded, Windows 10 users will be able to perform clean installs of the operating system at any time, even after the one-year free period has ended. Users won't be required to install Windows 7 or 8 and then re-upgrade, and they won't need the Windows 7 or 8 product key, with Aul confirming that clean installs from an ISO will be possible.
    SOURCE.

    For those that don't know, among other titles, Gabe is the head of the Microsoft Insider program and the leader of Microsoft Operating Systems Group's Data and Fundamentals Team.
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    Re: Windows 7 RETAIL upgrade to Windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by GuidoLS View Post
    Someone sticky this somewhere, please -



    SOURCE.

    For those that don't know, among other titles, Gabe is the head of the Microsoft Insider program and the leader of Microsoft Operating Systems Group's Data and Fundamentals Team.
    Why sticky it? It doesn't answer anything much, and certainly not the IPs question. Much of that article is what they "assume" will happen, and consider "likely".

    They even explicitly make the point that MS refer to "supported life", not "life" .... a point I've made previously, and that there is NO definition of what MS mean by the term.

    Also, when installing the upgrade, you are asked to agree to the EULA, which means, if you do so, you HAVE consented to the changes specified. And there's an extremely good chance it'll be legally binding, too.

    Among the questions I want answered before upgrading a transferable retail licence would be exactly what Maverick asked .... will the Win10 system still be transferrable? I agree with you that we may not know until release day, but I'm not uograding until I know, because to me, if it isn't transferable, it'd be a huge downgrade not an upgrade. I also want to know if, having "upgraded" to W10, I can change my mind and revert that licence back to the original W7, or Win8. If not, again, no upgrade for me, free or otherwise.

    Oh, and by "know", I mean clear, authoritative official answers, not speculation based on what's happened previously because while that's interesting, it offers no certainty about this time.

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    Re: Windows 7 RETAIL upgrade to Windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    Why sticky it? It doesn't answer anything much, and certainly not the IPs question. Much of that article is what they "assume" will happen, and consider "likely".

    They even explicitly make the point that MS refer to "supported life", not "life" .... a point I've made previously, and that there is NO definition of what MS mean by the term.

    Also, when installing the upgrade, you are asked to agree to the EULA, which means, if you do so, you HAVE consented to the changes specified. And there's an extremely good chance it'll be legally binding, too.

    Among the questions I want answered before upgrading a transferable retail licence would be exactly what Maverick asked .... will the Win10 system still be transferrable? I agree with you that we may not know until release day, but I'm not uograding until I know, because to me, if it isn't transferable, it'd be a huge downgrade not an upgrade. I also want to know if, having "upgraded" to W10, I can change my mind and revert that licence back to the original W7, or Win8. If not, again, no upgrade for me, free or otherwise.

    Oh, and by "know", I mean clear, authoritative official answers, not speculation based on what's happened previously because while that's interesting, it offers no certainty about this time.
    Tell you what - if Gabe Aul making a post about clean installs isn't authoritative enough for you, than I don't know what is. The question has been asked multiple times in one thread, and this is a definitive answer from the man running the show. What more do you want? Blood contract?
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    Re: Windows 7 RETAIL upgrade to Windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by GuidoLS View Post
    Tell you what - if Gabe Aul making a post about clean installs isn't authoritative enough for you, than I don't know what is. The question has been asked multiple times in one thread, and this is a definitive answer from the man running the show. What more do you want? Blood contract?
    Also quoting from your source (which is itself an opinion)

    Microsoft is content to continue to use the "supported lifetime" terminology without offering any clarification. At a bare minimum, our assumption is that the company will still want to be able to, for example, change the minimum hardware specs that Windows requires or change or update its driver model in such a way that some current drivers may stop working.
    So there is still some ambiguity. And there will still be some speculation. So while I'm sure HEXUS staff will continue to report the various pronouncements from Redmond, it is extremely unlikely that anything from your source is going to be made a sticky and therefore a perceived stamp of authority, by any member of the admin team. End of.
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    Re: Windows 7 RETAIL upgrade to Windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Also quoting from your source (which is itself an opinion)



    So there is still some ambiguity. And there will still be some speculation. So while I'm sure HEXUS staff will continue to report the various pronouncements from Redmond, it is extremely unlikely that anything from your source is going to be made a sticky and therefore a perceived stamp of authority, by any member of the admin team. End of.
    My 'source' is the lead of the Windows Insider Program.

    https://twitter.com/GabeAul/status/605899873360019457

    I just showed Ars some respect, as they broke the news initially. But no problem - end of works for me.

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    Re: Windows 7 RETAIL upgrade to Windows 10

    Another question about win 10:- Will the latest anti piracy system allow you to Install win10 or each of 3 partitions on one hard drive OR win 10 each on three separate hard drives...on the same computer.
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    Re: Windows 7 RETAIL upgrade to Windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by GuidoLS View Post
    Someone sticky this somewhere, please -



    SOURCE.

    For those that don't know, among other titles, Gabe is the head of the Microsoft Insider program and the leader of Microsoft Operating Systems Group's Data and Fundamentals Team.
    That's still on the original device though right? Hence all the terminology about supported device lifetime? I think the issue here is about transferring it to other devices, such as the retail license conditions allow. Still, it is some extra useful information, thanks.

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    Re: Windows 7 RETAIL upgrade to Windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by GuidoLS View Post
    Tell you what - if Gabe Aul making a post about clean installs isn't authoritative enough for you, than I don't know what is. The question has been asked multiple times in one thread, and this is a definitive answer from the man running the show. What more do you want? Blood contract?
    What I want, or expect, is posts that answer the question (s) the OP asked, not suggestions to sticky something that doesn't, inferring that the OP is missing the obvious.

    Also, that's about the third time you've responded to me using a patronising attitude, like that "blood contract" dig. So here's an official warning for you. Respond with reasonable courtesy, or don't respond at all, but next time you resond like that, you'll get a suspension.

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    Re: Windows 7 RETAIL upgrade to Windows 10

    I think the most telling statements from Gabe (emphasis mine), in the same twitter conversation, are:

    Once you've successfully upgraded a device to Win10 you can reinstall on that device whenever needed.
    Source: https://twitter.com/GabeAul/status/605927500649107457

    ISO doesn't "know", it's the activation service that knows if you have a license binding
    Source: https://twitter.com/GabeAul/status/606249657103196161

    That explicitly mentions a license binding, held by the activation service, that allows an activated device to be reinstalled. So, the activation service (somehow) binds your Win 10 license to your device. The only way I can see of interpreting that is that once you upgrade a retail Win 7 license to Windows 10, that license becomes bound to your device, preventing you from transferring it between devices in the future.

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    Re: Windows 7 RETAIL upgrade to Windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by excalibur2 View Post
    Another question about win 10:- Will the latest anti piracy system allow you to Install win10 or each of 3 partitions on one hard drive OR win 10 each on three separate hard drives...on the same computer.
    From what I can tell from the TP, it allows both......I have had it multi-booting in both situations (currently multi-booting 8.1 and 10 from the same drive but obviously different partitions)...and that's with UEFI which has caused issues in the past with multibooting.

    It gave a warning in the installer about partitions not being ideal (it's due to the way UEFI works) but multiboot works fine.
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    Re: Windows 7 RETAIL upgrade to Windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryjim View Post
    ....

    The only way I can see of interpreting that is that once you upgrade a retail Win 7 license to Windows 10, that license becomes bound to your device, preventing you from transferring it between devices in the future.
    I agree, but .... it still relies on our interpretation, and I'd like to see clear, official clarification, prefrably via a formal statement not a twitter feed. There is, after all, a FAQ. I wonder why issues like this aren't clarified on it?

    One possibility is MS are doing something they know will provoke a backlash, and are deliberately keeping quiet, hoping to slipstream it without us noticing. If so, fat chance. Another possibility is that they aren't aware of the disquiet. Personally, I dismiss that as unlikely, bordering on impossible. What is possible is that they don't see it as an issue worth bothering with. It is for me, and for some other users in the same boat, but Guido is right, we MIGHT (or might not) be a very small number and they're just 'not bovvered' what we think. If so, fair enough, ... Linux here I come.

    It could also be that that isn't what they intend, and that a transferable (retail) licence will retain that transferabilty. If so, I just wish they'd come out and say so. Clearly and unambiguously.

    But, given that everything they're saying in regards to changing the Windiws model (last ever version, slipstreamed auto-updates that Home users can't even defer never mind block), changing "monetisation", constant reverences to "device" and "supported life" without clearly defining either, and so on, all lead me to suspect what the end objection of this metamorphosis of Windows is.

    And again, if so, fair enough. It's their OS, and they can change direction if they wish. I just wish they'd do users the common courtesy of being clear, in the face of months of speculation, triggered by their own statements what they are, or alternatively, are not, going to do.

    Here's an example. I have a standalone SatNav with "lifetime(*) free map updates". But they (Garmin) DO define what they mean by "supported life", and without quoting it all, it includes whether they (Garmin) are still able to get map updates from the mapping company. Implicit is that IF they change map suppliers, ongoing "support" for old maps may cease. They were clear on meaning, I read the meaning and bought the SatNav.

    But by leaving so many aspects of the Win10 future uncertain, when they have stated it's the 'last version' (the meaning of which is, in itself, ambiguous) they leave me feeling entirely that upgrading, at least on info made public so far, is very much buying a pig in a poke. Which I'm not about to do.

    Maybe clarification will be forthcoming before, or on, release date but if so, it begs the question why they don't just clear it up now, and help us decide to upgrade or not, and if yes, then when/how. What is certain, carved in stone, in my mind is that IF I update, it will be on a date and at a time of MY choosing, not when/if a pre-reserved update decides ir's time. So I certainly won't be reserving a copy. I also absolutely rule out ANY chance of upgrading a live machine for at least several months.

    And that's one reason why being 100% sure I can "upgrade" an existing licence, then revert that licence to Win7/8, whichever it came from, is critical to me. I'm not interested in basing decisions on preview/beta versions. Only final code. And I'm not irreversibly burning a useful, valid transferable Win7 licence if it does "bind" to that device, or once upgraded, invalidate the old Win7/8 licence.

    Personally, IF I get satisfactory answers to questions about Win10, and IF it appears to suit my needs, I'll upgrade several of my machines (though not all qualify). If not, they'll euther stay as they are, or go Linux. Frankly, either way is fine, but I would like definite answers before deciding, if MS ever decide to coear the air. If they don't, it makes the decision for me.

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    Re: Windows 7 RETAIL upgrade to Windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by shaithis View Post
    From what I can tell from the TP, it allows both......I have had it multi-booting in both situations (currently multi-booting 8.1 and 10 from the same drive but obviously different partitions)...and that's with UEFI which has caused issues in the past with multibooting.

    It gave a warning in the installer about partitions not being ideal (it's due to the way UEFI works) but multiboot works fine.
    Well a bit off topic but easy to clear up in one post..so if I had win10 on three hard drives on one computer it would be illegal to take one hard drive out and put it in another identical computer....so there must be something on the hardrive that checks the motherboard bios (or whatever) that informs MS it's illegal...ATM have put win10 insider (on one hardrive) into three different computers and it didn't mind but I'm sure that would all change for the final version.
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