Weird Windows licensing question ....

[Saracen]

So I was talking to a friend about Win10, and what I regard as issues, and a friend asked me this question, and frankly, I'm stumped.

She has a legit, valid full retail WinXP licence. So she can use that.

She has a full, retail Win8 upgrade pack. So she can use Win 8.

She's eligible for a free Win8 to 8.1 upgrade, so can use that.

Trouble is, she doesn't like W8 at all, doesn't like Win8.1 much less and isn't, at least for now, interested at all in Win10.

So, can she legally and legitimately downgrade that legit Win8/Win8.1 licence to Win7, for which she apparently has a disc with Win7 on it, but no valid licence?

I'm utterly unsure. Does anyone KNOW?

[Splash]

Nope, Retail (fully packaged product) client OSen don't come with downgrade rights

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2832566

If it were an OEM copy then she would likely be eligible (Assuming Pro), and if it was Volume Licensed then she would definitely be eligible.

[Saracen]

Shame. Looks like she has the problem I have, which is wanting a (genuine, legit) Win7 upgrade licence from XP, and seemingly unable to get one. A friend might be able to help me,, but that'll be it.

[azrael-]

From what I've understood the right to downgrade is just that. Whatever technical tomfoolery is necessary (i.e. obtaining a valid software and key) is entirely up to you. Which is why I've always kind of laughed at this supposed "right".

[mjgr33n]

Shame. Looks like she has the problem I have, which is wanting a (genuine, legit) Win7 upgrade licence from XP, and seemingly unable to get one. A friend might be able to help me,, but that'll be it.

I am sure you don;t want to spend money, however I have found that G2Play.net is quite good for windows licenses http://www.....net/catalogsearch/res...x/?q=windows+7 have bought 2 windows 8.1 Pro retail ones from them in the past.

That being said, windows 10 plus Start10 from stardock.com which costs $5 is a much better option long term imo.

[scaryjim]

Shame. Looks like she has the problem I have, which is wanting a (genuine, legit) Win7 upgrade licence ....

Don't suppose your friend works for an educational establishment that offers Viglen Work at Home as a staff perk? Legit Win 7 upgrade licenses, installable on a personal machine as long is it's used for "work related purposes", are only a few pounds through that scheme.

[Saracen]

I am sure you don;t want to spend money, however I have found that G2Play.net is quite good for windows licenses http://www.....net/catalogsearch/res...x/?q=windows+7 have bought 2 windows 8.1 Pro retail ones from them in the past.

That being said, windows 10 plus Start10 from stardock.com which costs $5 is a much better option long term imo.

I don't mind spending money, and nor would my friend if need be, but ONLY on entirely legit, valid and retail (transferable) licences. I don't see any chance that those "keys" are. As for downloading an ISO image from an unknown source, sorry but no way.

And the chances of me EVER using Win10, unless MS radically change policy in several areas, like privacy and mandatory upgrades, is precisely zero, and I don't see any chance that they will. That's why I'm considering another Win7 licence, as a stopgap to shifting that system away from Windows entirely. Start10 is immaterial to me, because my objections to Win10 are far more fundamental than that.

[Saracen]

Don't suppose your friend works for an educational establishment that offers Viglen Work at Home as a staff perk? Legit Win 7 upgrade licenses, installable on a personal machine as long is it's used for "work related purposes", are only a few pounds through that scheme.

Nice thought, but no, she doesn't.

[mjgr33n]

I don't mind spending money, and nor would my friend if need be, but ONLY on entirely legit, valid and retail (transferable) licences. I don't see any chance that those "keys" are. As for downloading an ISO image from an unknown source, sorry but no way.

And the chances of me EVER using Win10, unless MS radically change policy in several areas, like privacy and mandatory upgrades, is precisely zero, and I don't see any chance that they will. That's why I'm considering another Win7 licence, as a stopgap to shifting that system away from Windows entirely. Start10 is immaterial to me, because my objections to Win10 are far more fundamental than that.

The keys are all legit but only OEM, but not hard to look around and find Win 7 Retail easily enough, as for downloading ISO from unknown source I have no idea what you are talking about as I never mentioned such, however if you wish to do so you would just download it from Microsoft, at least https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-recovery should still work.

FYI I used a windows 7 pro OEM key for several years on multiple computers, every time I changed motherboards I activated it fine on new computer by phoning up MS, never had an issue.

Also the Windows 8.1 Pro Retail Keys I have bought off the internet have been great and fully transferable also.

If none of the above works for you and you absolutely have to have box set with DVD and see a key in your hand with a certificate then it is still very expensive at least in UK it is and quite hard to find the retail box sets now.

[Saracen]

The keys are all legit but only OEM, but not hard to look around and find Win 7 Retail easily enough, as for downloading ISO from unknown source I have no idea what you are talking about as I never mentioned such, however if you wish to do so you would just download it from Microsoft, at least https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-recovery should still work.

FYI I used a windows 7 pro OEM key for several years on multiple computers, every time I changed motherboards I activated it fine on new computer by phoning up MS, never had an issue.

Also the Windows 8.1 Pro Retail Keys I have bought off the internet have been great and fully transferable also.

If none of the above works for you and you absolutely have to have box set with DVD and see a key in your hand with a certificate then it is still very expensive at least in UK it is and quite hard to find the retail box sets now.

No, those keys aren't legit. They might work, and indeed initially probably will, but they aren't legit. What they are are illegally sold MS volume licensing keys, probably from MSDN. They will work until MS catch up with them, then they will be deactivated.

The source of ISO's referred to was the one specified on the site you provided the link to.

[mjgr33n]

No, those keys aren't legit. They might work, and indeed initially probably will, but they aren't legit. What they are are illegally sold MS volume licensing keys, probably from MSDN. They will work until MS catch up with them, then they will be deactivated.

The source of ISO's referred to was the one specified on the site you provided the link to.

They are not MSDN or Volume license keys, they are keys sold in other countries much cheaper than ours. At first I did not trust them either and thought the same thing, I have worked as an IT consultant for over 20 years now so I am rather familiar with such practises from people and I could have used MSDN MAK at any point, but I have always had all my systems legitimately activated. Even though I earn a great deal of money for consulting I have always been against paying MS huge amounts of money for Pro Retail box sets, although I always had to £150 always seemed a lot for consumer.

But I figured I would get one 8.1 pro retail key from them initially and test. I checked the key details fully with my work contact at Microsoft and they registered as full Retail keys not MAK keys (MSDN provide MAK or KMS keys and KMS keys don;'t activate without a KMS Server), when initially activating it went through straight away as an unused Retail key would, when transferring to another motherboard, it wanted to activate via telephone as a retail key would also (a VL MAK key would just activate straight away again and use up one of the MAK counts on the MS servers). Also using numerous of the tool kits around the web they all registered the key as Retail, not MAK or OEM.

But I completely understand how sites like these can looks a little too good to be true, but the fact is you can buy windows overseas for very little money, when I worked in places like Beijing and Shanghai one could buy Windows for tiny amounts, even when I worked in New York and Washington prices where still a lot cheaper than UK, Ukraine and Russia again had different prices. Us Brits definitely seem to have to pay through the nose for Retail box sets.

If I find a site that looks better for you though I will post a link, you can try searching on Amazon - http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_...ords=Windows+7 there are a lot of Refurbished Keys from MS Refurbishing partners, they are OEM Keys but still legit and transferable via telephone.

Also realised that in the past a lot of keys that where sold which where dodgy came from TechNet which did actually give special keys that could be activated up to 5 times on 5 machines, but since Microsoft stopped selling TechNet and given they changed the type of keys given out in MSDN, that practice should certainly be a lot less, still, one should always be careful and double check the key.

[Saracen]

MS licensing is an absolute minefield. For instance, for some products the licence is region-specific. Product licenced for use in one region, say Asia-Pacific, is not licenced for use in another, like Japan, or India, or EU/EEA.

Also, of course, whether something activates is not a reliable guide to whether it's genuine or not, because some of the reasons for it not being genuine (like stolen keys, or many others) don't show up until later. Which is why Windows periodically checks, especially when you connect for patches/upgrades.

I too have a long-standing relationship with Microsoft including, until he retired, with Gates in person. But these days, while more limited, my contacts at MS tell me they DO NOT distribute authorised software in this manner. Other than Product Key Cards, distributed with CoA, they do not distribute keys as standalone products. So, keys sold in such a manner are not authorised. They may come from a variety of routes, be it MSDN, VL keys distributed via ADBA validation, stolen keys, keys provided under Open Programs used outside of region, and so on but they do tell me they aren't legit.

That leaves me with two separate and distinct points :-

- on a personal level, I want to be SURE any version of Win7 I buy is open, above-board, legit and 100% licence-compliant. And unused.

- at a HEXUS level, these sites look to be, at best, questionable, and at worst, either scams or downright illegal.

They are, IMHO, too questionable for HEXUS to get involved so I'll refer this back to the mod team for a discussion, and further confirmation with MS, but until then, I've removed those site links.

[mjgr33n]

MS licensing is an absolute minefield. For instance, for some products the licence is region-specific. Product licenced for use in one region, say Asia-Pacific, is not licenced for use in another, like Japan, or India, or EU/EEA.

Also, of course, whether something activates is not a reliable guide to whether it's genuine or not, because some of the reasons for it not being genuine (like stolen keys, or many others) don't show up until later. Which is why Windows periodically checks, especially when you connect for patches/upgrades.

I too have a long-standing relationship with Microsoft including, until he retired, with Gates in person. But these days, while more limited, my contacts at MS tell me they DO NOT distribute authorised software in this manner. Other than Product Key Cards, distributed with CoA, they do not distribute keys as standalone products. So, keys sold in such a manner are not authorised. They may come from a variety of routes, be it MSDN, VL keys distributed via ADBA validation, stolen keys, keys provided under Open Programs used outside of region, and so on but they do tell me they aren't legit.

That leaves me with two separate and distinct points :-

- on a personal level, I want to be SURE any version of Win7 I buy is open, above-board, legit and 100% licence-compliant. And unused.

- at a HEXUS level, these sites look to be, at best, questionable, and at worst, either scams or downright illegal.

They are, IMHO, too questionable for HEXUS to get involved so I'll refer this back to the mod team for a discussion, and further confirmation with MS, but until then, I've removed those site links.

I understand completely, better to be safe than sorry hence provided the alternative Amazon links, however there where far more issues with Windows 7 licensing in the past with the above mentioned TechNet and MSDN which is why a lot of people are cautious and right to be so.

I think with 8.1 and 10 it will be a lot better as keys are far more defined than they used to be, so confirmation of keys should be better.

However you pointed out that keys are not distributed in such manner and I agree, but that does not stop people from buying retail box set and opening it up and selling it digitally and given Microsoft has been selling keys digitally for quite a while now I don't see an issue with buying keys off Amazon where somebody has opened a box and emailed you the key and there is nothing which says such is wrong anywhere so if it is okay for MS and okay for Amazon and now you can even buy Office Digitally from Scan.co.uk http://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-...ital-downloads who you are partnered with then I don't see an issue buying from sites that sell CD Keys for games that also have great policies if something goes wrong with the keys and refunds your money.

I understand MS licensing can be a pain, try purchasing several thousand use site licenses for school or big companies and what should be the easiest thing in the world ends up giving you a migraine and 2 weeks of back and forth and the desire to want to kill anybody that changes anything in the agreement last minute

And yes regional differences can be a pain and some companies have then tried to block game keys based on this but then the companies that sold them all refunded the keys, these are big companies that need to make a profit but also have a reputation and if they don't refund if there is an issue people stop buying from them.

Good luck with your Windows 7 hunt and your friend )))

[Saracen]

....

Good luck with your Windows 7 hunt and your friend )))

Thanks. I think it's a rather forlorn hunt, though. But I do have one possiblility. I just need to get hold of him. And, another too, but that is a long shot.

[mjgr33n]

Thanks. I think it's a rather forlorn hunt, though. But I do have one possiblility. I just need to get hold of him. And, another too, but that is a long shot.

I used to have a spare Win 7 Pro license with CoA and DVD etc somewhere but I have failed to find it, I think I either gave it away or threw it away, if I find it will pm you the key, but I seriously doubt I will find it

[Saracen]

I used to have a spare Win 7 Pro license with CoA and DVD etc somewhere but I have failed to find it, I think I either gave it away or threw it away, if I find it will pm you the key, but I seriously doubt I will find it

Very generous. Thanks.