Win 10 question (yeah, I know) ..

[Saracen]

Before anyone ruptures something laughing at me asking about Win10, it's not for me. No really, seriously, it isn't. I want Win10 about as much as I want a dose of cl.... erm, an STD that sounds like applause.

But a friend asked, and despite getting a Level 5 Saracen lecture (see note) about Win10, still seems to want to try it. Go figure.

So, the question. They currently have a Win7 licence. It's either Pro or Ultimate, I'm not sure, but it IS a full, retail version.

If they upgrade, I hear things about MS "locking" the upgraded Win10 to that hardware, which removes the portability of that retail licence to new hardware. Suppose they decide, after a period, to dump Win10 and revert to Win7. Can the original Win7 licence still be transferred to new hardware and legitimately activated?

To be clear, I mean they :-

1 - Upgrade existing machine to Win10 using existing licence.
2 - Change mind, and want to revert, format drive utterly destroying Win10 and
3 - EITHER

A) Install old Win 7 on new hardware, or
B) Install Win 7 back on existing hardware, and at some future point, migrate to new hardware.

4) At no point will the original Win7 and upgraded Win10 licence both be is use. If they revert, they revert permanently and dump the W10 licence completely.

If so, is their any time limit on how quickly they have to decide to dump, and I mean completely dump, Win10 and revert? Can they wait a week, month, 6 months, what?

Note. I feel I've done my bit, stated my opinion, and issued appropriate warnings. One of those warnings was, if they go ahead, do not under any circumstances come to me wanting help with a Win10 system, because I will not want to know. I might even laugh. A lot.

So I actually am quite content if the go ahead and "upgrade".

[MadduckUK]

http://www.howtogeek.com/220723/how-...dows-7-or-8.1/

[Saracen]

So, in short, you can downgrade directly from W10 to a previous version for a month. After that, it's a re-install. In which case, that's fine.

What makes me a tad nervous, though, is words like "should" ...

Even if it’s been more than a month, you should be able to reinstall the version of Windows that came with your PC using fresh installation media and its product key.

The bold is mine.

Anyone tried it after the month?

[peterb]

http://www.howtogeek.com/220723/how-...dows-7-or-8.1/

WoooOOOooo I am the ghost of the hexus forum! *pulls cloak over face and disappears*

He returns...!













Runs away and hides










Welcome back!

[Jonj1611]

So, in short, you can downgrade directly from W10 to a previous version for a month. After that, it's a re-install. In which case, that's fine.

What makes me a tad nervous, though, is words like "should" ...The bold is mine.

Anyone tried it after the month?

I have done a system restore using the restore image on a Samsung laptop after a few months and it went back to Win 8 with no problems, no activation issues or anything else. However as always it may not be the same for everyone.

[peterb]

But a friend asked, and despite getting a Level 5 Saracen lecture (see note) about Win10, still seems to want to try it.

Yeah yeah, that old one " a 'friend'"

[Saracen]

Yeah yeah, that old one " a 'friend'"

Indeed. Just happens to be true, though.

As I've said before, no way am I putting Win10 on my machines, short of a radical reversal of policy by MS, which nobody thinks will happen.

[peterb]

Indeed. Just happens to be true, though.

As I've said before, no way am I putting Win10 on my machines, short of a radical reversal of policy by MS, which nobody thinks will happen.

I believe you! (And share your view of Microsoft's actions/directions, as you know)

[Saracen]

I believe you! (And share your view of Microsoft's actions/directions, as you know)

I even have crucifixes and loads of garlic bulbs hung on my PC, and mystical wards painted on the walls, as nothing else seems to keep Win10 off. My friends think I'm weird.



(And yeah, I do know you do).

[Macman]

Why are you so Anti-Win10?

Just purely asking from a curiosity standpoint.

[peterb]

Why are you so Anti-Win10?

Just purely asking from a curiosity standpoint.

The move towards subscription model

The rather more invasive telelemetry

The Lego box like GUI that was introduced with Windows 8

The constant nag to 'upgrade' from perfectly serviceable Windows 7


Saracen will give you a more detailed reply, although he has described his objections elsewhere.


And there are perfectly acceptable alternatives for the majority of Windows users - with the possible exception of the on-line game playing fraternity.

[tomasz]

I do have to admit that the upgrade process to W10 is very good, I know that some people have had issues but I was impressed. As for the OS it's almost the same as Windows 8, but lack of privacy and other things, like uninstalling applications put me seriously off.

[Saracen]

Why are you so Anti-Win10?

Just purely asking from a curiosity standpoint.

Peter is right, it's been done to death elsewhere by me.

It's broadly those issues. Plus a couple.

One of those is forced upgrades, during which MS seem to think they can install, or even remove, stuff on MY machines when THEY feel like it, for what THEY consider good reason. Well, not happening. My machines are and will remain under my control.

Why? For a start, I've had both essential hardware, and critical software, refuse to run in the past on new versions. I don't trust it to not happen again, and they're business-critical functions. So, I have a ... you might call it version control process. BEFORE I upgrade certain systems, I image the OS drive, remove the master drive, insert (removable drive cage) an identical formatted drive, reload the image and upgrade that , not my master drive. I never, EVER upgrade without testing that essential hardware and critical software BEFORE doing so. Yet, when MS decide they own the right to upgrade our machines in whatever way they deem fit, whenever they decide to, they remove effective control over the exact configuration of our machines from us.

My attitude to that is that first, no way in hell am I doing that. Second, I intensely resent the way MS shove it on us.

Also, from a telemetry point of view, it's not just what MS do, or rather, say they do (and claim not to do), but how they've gone about doing it. From a privacy perspective, I find Win8 and onwards unacceptable. They aren't about to change course and I'm not about to change my mind, which leaves us with an impasse, that sees me sticking with Win7 for some systems, and migrating others to Linux.

There's a series of other things that, in isolation are of limited importance but cumulatively have led me to a dislike of MS that has gone from annoyance to something bordering loathing. It's about the Win8 UI changes they tried to force on us. It's about always-on Kinect in XboxOne. And so on.

Put it all together and it amounts both to a despicable corporate arrogance probably only exceeded by Google (who I truly do loathe, despise and detest) and to an apparent long-term corporate strategy (for MS) that's leading us, step by step, in a direction I'm simply not going. Ever. I'll go offline entirely first.

Put all this together, the utter lack of any trust (in fact, considerable distrust) in MS, the absolute rejection of forced upgrades, the privacy issues .... oh, and the creeping implementation of cloud integration, which I also reject as I do not under any circumstances, now or ever, want my data stored in the cloud. I've been storing and protecting my own data successfully for some 37 years, and will continue to do so without cloud "services". So, put all this together and however attractive some aspects of Win10 might be, it's nowhere near enough to overcome all my objections, both to Win10, and increasingly, to MS.

Perhaps what I resent most is that by forcing these changes on us, like it or not, MS forced me to spend quite a lot of time investigating, then learning, Linux, and then sourcing replacement software (like Office) in order to avoid their never-ruddy-ending persistent attempts to upgrade me without me ever agreeing to it.

I am used to a model where the company OFFER an upgrade, and I decide, based on cost/benefit analysis of MY needs and circumstances whether to upgrade or not. But MS won't take "no", or even <rude word> off, for an answer. They're like PPI cold-callers, or overly-frequent Jehovah's Witnesses who, no matter how many times to tell them "no" politely, keep coming back like a particularly virulent and treatment-resistent dose of the clap. And they're about as welcome as that here, too.


God, I must learn to resist answering when someone asks questions like that. Once I start, my seething resentment at MS is hard to stop.

I trust that answers your question?

[chuckskull]

Just to add to Saracen's post; as someone who shares his opinion but wanted Win10(DX12). I use an ask to connect firewall to sidestep most of those issues, how bad is it I hear you cry?

On a FULLY opted out system(which is way to hard to do, with check-boxes hidden deep in multiple different menu's, I needed google to find them all).

Allowing the (fully opted out remember)OS to connect as it pleases; 200+ connections to 30+ countries. Along with some more multicast etc ones that can't be geolocated. Including 4+ nations regarded by freedom house as 'not free'(more on that in a sec). Why is my computer sending data to Angola? No idea.

svchost alone wants to keep 40 connections open.

All completely undocumented, as far as I can tell only 2 of those are necessary or useful to me. Even those are borderline; DHCP and Windows update(which annoyingly has been bundled into svchost with it's 40 undocumented connections).

Why does this bother me so much? Firstly the clue is in the name, this is my personal computer it contains some very personal data. Not to mention it's less than a foot from my bed and although we take such things for granted nowadays contains some rather powerful sensors.

Now onto the 'not free' problem. Just as one example; I'm an atheist; NBD here in the Britain but in some places being outed as an atheist can get you murdered, in 13 others sentenced to death. Even in the freer countries like the US there are 7 states where their state constitution prevents you from holding any public office and many more where you have no legal protections from simply being fired from any job for being an atheist.

I talk to atheists in those countries. Even if I 100% trusted MS intentions(which I don't). Can I 100% trust their security? Can I 100% trust the security of everyone they work with or handles the data even as a middleman? Can I 100% trust the security services of those nations? No, I can't. A leak could ruin lives.

I hear MS is planning the ability to actually fully opt out later in the year, here's hoping they follow through.

[Macman]

Thanks Saracen lol!

Sorry if I raised the blood pressure with my question.

[97c4fe6d]

I hear that Windows 10 is supposed to be better for gaming. At least that is what some of my clan mates have professed. I am in complete agreement with you all about mistrusting MS. They install so many backdoors for NSA etc that if I could still run on Windows 95 or 3.11 I probably would. Microsoft is not about privacy nor security as it is for sale to the highest bidders which is usually the govt. Honestly, if I could do the gaming I do on Linux I would in a heartbeat and dump Windows all together. That is the same reason I never got a Mac, software issues. My daughters computer came with Win10, if she used it more I would probably pull out the Win7 disc and reformat it just to regain some privacy. Might end up doing so at a later date anyway. For the foreseeable future I will stick with my WIN7 ultimate.