Help a Programming Novice

[Xaneden]

Hey Guys,
I'm pretty good with problem solving on hardware and software etc, and I'd like to learn to program. Now, I know the names of the major languages, and the pros and cons of each, but I really haven't a clue what to learn. I'd like to go on a proper course, but you have to be 18 before most centers will let you.

My question is, bearing in mind I have no programming experience, which language(s) should I learn to do the following things:

Create programs which change basic things in documents such as .txt
Create programs which can perform calculations, such as balancing chemical equations.
The scope that will allow me to create/edit games

Apparently C++ would be the best bet, but I've heard it is complicated due to it being based on C, and just enhanced with object oriented technology.

Any advice would be appreciated, as this is something I've wanted to do for a long time, but I've just not known how.

[Norky]

C++ is really the only way forward for games development, HOWEVER, as a first programming language it is really not advisable.

You mentioned editing .txt files, I suggest looking into Perl. The reason why is that Perl has far superior string handling, but also the module support will appeal to first time coders.

If, however, you want a compiled rather than interpreted language, try learning C, simply calculation programs should be no problem.

[Xaneden]

Is the leap from C to C++ a hard one?

[Norky]

Is the leap from C to C++ a hard one?

Depends if you learn C first

They say you should, but I don't agree, I merely suggested it out of simplicity for mathematical programming.

[Xaneden]

Also, why hasn't anyone made a more powerful object oriented language which doesn't have the messiness of C++?

SmallTalk++ anyone?

[Spud1]

I would suggest that you start off learning ANSI C (thats normal, no frills C). This will give you the basic concepts of programming - the syntaxical structures, data structures, program flow, loops, conditional statements - most of these things are pretty standard accross the languages.

Its even easier to start with C if you do it purely within a console environment - a linux shell is perfect to start wtih, or you can create console projects from visual studio. Linux shells are cheap as chips on the net tho and is what I would reccomend to start with.

Once you have grasped the basics of C - you can move forward to C++. It really isnt that much of a leap, once you understand how objects work your laughing

I expect t hat many people will suggest *cough* java or VB *cough* and while both of these are pretty easy to pick up and use (VB especially) neither will give you the foundation that C will. you can always try them aswell, but C is where you want to start

some helpful links for you to get you started

www.aceshells.com for a shell (they do free ones i think)

the rest of these are C help links

http://www.cs.cf.ac.uk/Dave/C/CE.html
http://pw1.netcom.com/~tjensen/ptr/
http://freebooks.by.ru/view/CProgram...age/kandr.html
http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/cclass/notes/top.html

and Cos I'm kind, heres a link to the lectures, tutorials etc from my university

http://www.soc.staffs.ac.uk/rgh1/sdc/sdc.htm
http://www.soc.staffs.ac.uk/rgh1/introtoC/itc.htm
http://www.soc.staffs.ac.uk/ddh1/fspc.htm

[Xaneden]

Thanks a lot for your advice guys, and especially for those links Spud1. Thats a big help, I appreciate it a lot guys.

[DaBeeeenster]

Also, why hasn't anyone made a more powerful object oriented language which doesn't have the messiness of C++?

SmallTalk++ anyone?

They have; it's called Java/C#/Ruby

[DavidM]

The only real language is assembly

[aidanjt]

go for it mort-uk ;P

*refrains on commenting on people who bash C/C++ without using it first*

aghm.. well yes, Xcelsion, C++ would probibly best fit the needs you would have for programming, but games programming is a very advanced programming application.. but if your going for it i think you should start with C++, C will teach you bad habbits that will take you awhile to shake of. If you have a dab with that and your finding it plexing then take a step back and use something more basic.. like java or something.

[Butcher]

Depends if you learn C first

They say you should, but I don't agree, I merely suggested it out of simplicity for mathematical programming.

Who is "they"? The creator of C++ suggests learning C++ first as you don't get into bad habits from C then. I'd agree with him.

[Aaron]

I'd personally learn Java first.

It hides some of the trickier aspects of memory management, it's a pretty "clean" language, there's lots of great documentation for it on the web and there's a nice, few IDE for it.

[Spud1]

They have; it's called Java/C#/Ruby

I don't know about Ruby, but C++ is more powerful than both C# and especially java. How can something without pointers (java) and 'proper' memory management (ahem, java) be more powerful than C++....

C++ is hard to learn as a first language, I still reccomend learning C first though, if you learn it properly you won;t get into bad habits.

As I said java is an easy one to get into but it wont help you with the more powerful languages, especially with C++/C if your wanting to get into games. You would be almost starting from scratch again going from java to C++

[Xaneden]

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to bash C/C++, I'm just reitterating what I've read before.

I considered Java, as it seemed to be object oriented and have most of the features I liked; but it seems to be aimed squarely at internet applications/applets, and small applications; which isn't really what I was looking for.

Hate to be a complete noob here, but whats the difference between C++ and 'C#'? I know C# is something to do with Microsoft, and maybe their 'Visual Studio' thing, but thats it...

[DaBeeeenster]

I don't know about Ruby, but C++ is more powerful than both C# and especially java. How can something without pointers (java) and 'proper' memory management (ahem, java) be more powerful than C++....

C++ is hard to learn as a first language, I still reccomend learning C first though, if you learn it properly you won;t get into bad habits.

As I said java is an easy one to get into but it wont help you with the more powerful languages, especially with C++/C if your wanting to get into games. You would be almost starting from scratch again going from java to C++

It depends how you define "powerful". If you mean in terms of moving bits around then yes, C/C++ is more powerful. If you mean in terms of the number of API's and Frameworks available, ease and speed of development, ease of deployment etc. etc. then I would say that Java is more powerful.

Horses for courses. I would not want to develop a video game in Java, but I would not want to write a large web application in C++.

[Spud1]

It depends how you define "powerful". If you mean in terms of moving bits around then yes, C/C++ is more powerful. If you mean in terms of the number of API's and Frameworks available, ease and speed of development, ease of deployment etc. etc. then I would say that Java is more powerful.

Horses for courses. I would not want to develop a video game in Java, but I would not want to write a large web application in C++.

Yeah thats what I meant I wouldnt want to write a web app in C/C++ either, way too messy in that context, but for most none web and/or large apps I would opt for something other than java. It does depend entirely on what you want to build - different languages are suited to different projects. Java is a great language for what it is, but my point here is that its not the best starting point if you want to get into games programming at some point down the line

C# is microsofts take on C++ really, I dont know much about it though so i cant reccomend or say anything much against it really