Windows 11 installed..

[[GSV]Trig]

And I already dont like it, I have my taskbar on the left of my screen wide enough so that I can see the day in the bar and my taskbar icons are 3 wide..

Cant do that on Windows 11 it seems unless you start faffing with Regedit...

[Kovoet]

Being nervous installing it and you guys are maybe me happy knowing I made the right choice not installing it yet.

[[GSV]Trig]

Not sure why they would remove something as simple as that though, yeah I might be weird but I like my taskbar how I like my taskbar...

I might end up reinstalling WIndows 10 fresh later if I cba..

[Terbinator]

Unless you're moving to Alder Lake next week I don't think there is any point for any one in moving over, especially with the inconvenience of adapting to the new OS + likelihood of bugs.

[Jonj1611]

I installed Windows 11 on the laptop. No issues, just seems a reskinned Windows 10, you can find everything in the background and mostly I quite like the improvements. Not too bothered about the start menu being in the middle but then again I have a Mac as my main machine

[[GSV]Trig]

You can move the taskbar stuff to the left, that's not an issue, and yes it is very much a reskin of Windows 10 although I'm sure there's a lot of stuff under the skin that is different (not sure how much given how long it took to do the upgrade tbh (not very)) but I don't get why they would remove a simple thing like this..

As for Alder Lake, nah, I'm on a 5800X at the mo, cant see me upgrading for a good few years given this time last year I moved from an i7-3770 to a 1600AF and then to the 5800X..

[Saracen999]

You can move the taskbar stuff to the left, that's not an issue, and yes it is very much a reskin of Windows 10 although I'm sure there's a lot of stuff under the skin that is different (not sure how much given how long it took to do the upgrade tbh (not very)) but I don't get why they would remove a simple thing like this..

....

That principle has been at the heart of my gripes with Windows since the W8 Start Menu farce. My point hasn't changed .... change the default, if you must, MS, but give us users the respect of the option to switch back if we don't like it. Don't try to force us, like it or not (and it may have been clear over the years that I sure don't like it) to do it your way 'cos you like it. You will hit user-inertia and resentment if you do. I can't believe they're so stupid as to have not noticed that by now, which leads me to the conclusion they know, but don't give a .... damn what we think.

[[GSV]Trig]

I've tweeted them, I'm sure they will respond shortly..

[Saracen999]

If they do, buy a lottey ticket. - it's obviously your lucky day.

[DanceswithUnix]

I can't believe they're so stupid as to have not noticed that by now, which leads me to the conclusion they know, but don't give a .... damn what we think.

It seems they have swapped places with Apple to be the most valuable company again. I think that's all they notice. I hear people grumbling, including a few usually hollow threats to move to Linux, but clearly nothing is hitting them in the wallet.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021...r-apple-falls/

[Saracen999]

It's not entirely hollow grumbling, but I agree, it's not on a scale to cause them much concern. In the short term.

However, my opinion is that, even in our little microcosm here, grumbling has grown significantly. Compare the .... hesitancy .... now, to the W7 to W8 move and I think there is markedly less enthusiasm to move, or move yet. And a LOT more user cynicism and/or dismissiveness.

Has it really bitten them? No. Certainly not yet. But ill-will is growing, and my sense is it's much higher than a few years ago.

Then there's the other side of the coin. If not Windows, what? Linux? That's the other half of the issue - the alternative. Switching to Linux is not an entirely intuitive process. It's okay, up to a point, for the tech enthusiast and literate, and far better than a few years ago but still a long, LONG way from smooth for average users that just want to turn on their PC and have it work.

I see three (maybe 2.5) main problems. One is gaming. It is certainly much much better than it was, but by no means straight-forward. The .... disconnect ..... is shrinking though, but still jarring. Give it a few years and gaming might be just as viable on Linux as it is now on Windows.

The second is for those (me included) with hard-to-replace Windows=based software, or legacy hardware with no Linux drivers, that would be expensive to replace. The hardware issue is, over enough time, self-resolving, as it all eventually packs up, has served it's life, or there is just a newer alternative sufficiently good to justify changing anyway. But it does take quite a bit of time. Were I not retired now, much of my legacy hardware would have been upgraded by now but knowing that retirement was coming, uograding it just wasn't (and isn't) justified. It'll do.

The half a reason is that there's no such software as "Linux". There's a bunch of 'em, which is probably both it's biggest strength and biggest weakness. For those 'cognicenti', it's a strength. Pick the distro you like best, that's best suited to what you want it for, and your experience level. But for mere mortals looking to switch from Windows, even picking he right distro, finding which set of weaknesses least gets in YOUR way, given YOUR needs, is a trial by torture and confusing as hell.

Many here will already know, but Linus and Luke (LTT, and WAN Show) are currently having a 'Linus-off' - as distinctly tech-literate people, but Windows users) how viable is it to switch their daily driver home PC from Windows to Linux. They haven't finished filming yet, but they've dropped enough hints on the WAN show to know that, even as pretty clued up tech-literate youngsters (to old farts like me), they are most emphatically not having a smooth ride. Neither have yet formally stated which distro they ended up using, or why, but it's clear that even getting that right isn't simple. And if they struggle, good luck to the non-techie user .... though in fairness, non-techie users may well also be much less demanding in what they want it to do.

Summing all that up, there isn't YET an easy, obvious viable alternative to Windows, but .... people don't need to commit to W11, or a switch, until support for W10 run out in 2025. And those several years could well see Linux become a far more attractive, and easy, alternative.

My message to MS, therefore, would be to study history, lest it repeat itself. Most 'empires', from ancient times to the British empire, tend to crash and burn eventually as alternatives arise, as arrogance grows and as resentment quietly builds as a result. Even anti-US feeling, due to their over-weening arrogance, has spread around the world and China ... well, need I say more about empires?

Yeah, actually, I do need to say one more thing.

Microsoft, for pities sake, do a case study on the rise and fall of IBM. They were the proverbial bee's knees, and threw their weight around with abandon and utter disdain for everybody else. Resentment smouldered away, and when an alternative presented itself, the background detestation for IBM's arrogance meant loads of people jumped at it. Sure, it was more complex than that,but who was it that pretty much single-handedly delivered the coup-de-grace to IBM? None other than one Mr William Gates and his unknown tin-pot little "no threat" start-up otherwise known as, of course, Microsoft. IBM ignored the rumbling and grumblings and given half a chance and a viable alternative .... well, the rest is history.

Don't get complacent, MS. Don't ignore users too much. It'll bite you .... eventually.

[Kovoet]

What I don't understand with all the brains they have under one roof. Why are they not making things easier. They are just making things a lot more difficult. They are taking the enjoyment out of everything.

[AGTDenton]

While not an ideal solution - Keep an eye on Start 11 as they continue to develop it, by Stardock (people that brought us Offworld Trading Company, Ashes of the singularity...). It includes taskbar and start menu customisations.

I stopped using default Microsoft start menus & taskbars since Windows 7 so I've gotten used to it and wouldn't go back (except for work purposes).

https://www.stardock.com/products/start11/

[Kovoet]

While not an ideal solution - Keep an eye on Start 11 as they continue to develop it, by Stardock (people that brought us Offworld Trading Company, Ashes of the singularity...). It includes taskbar and start menu customisations.

I stopped using default Microsoft start menus & taskbars since Windows 7 so I've gotten used to it and wouldn't go back (except for work purposes).

https://www.stardock.com/products/start11/

Never used them I just might this time

[Saracen999]

While not an ideal solution - Keep an eye on Start 11 as they continue to develop it, by Stardock (people that brought us Offworld Trading Company, Ashes of the singularity...). It includes taskbar and start menu customisations.

I stopped using default Microsoft start menus & taskbars since Windows 7 so I've gotten used to it and wouldn't go back (except for work purposes).

https://www.stardock.com/products/start11/

I seem to remember Stardock doing Start 8, way back when ....

It gets my endorsement too, and if I was to go W11, it would be with that.

[AGTDenton]

Never used them I just might this time

For a fiver it's definitely worth the punt, and is licensed for multiple machines should you end up liking it.
At the moment they seem to only have a fix to move the taskbar to the top of the screen, but don't mention to the left or right yet, that's not to say it isn't there, they justy don't do a great job of listing all the features. If it's not there the feature could come with time as it's still in beta.

I seem to remember Stardock doing Start 8, way back when ....

It gets my endorsement too, and if I was to go W11, it would be with that.

Yeah they've done Start8 and 10 now + a whole host of other utilities you can get in a bundle.
https://www.stardock.com/products/odnt/

I may actually get the suite when I eventually go to 11