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Thread: Windows 11 Insider Preview points of interest - Build 22557

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    Windows 11 Insider Preview points of interest - Build 22557

    A couple of worthy highlights from the Insiders Preview last month:
    https://blogs.windows.com/windows-in...w-build-22557/

    While these features are not guaranteed to see the light of day, they at least show us the way in which Microsoft is thinking and the direction they're trying to steer the ship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Windows.com
    The Dev Channel receives builds that represent long lead work from our engineers with features and experiences that may never get released as we try out different concepts and get feedback.
    • Pro users could now be forced to be online during the OOBE phase as well as forcing a Microsoft Account.
      Quote Originally Posted by Windows.com
      Similar to Windows 11 Home edition, Windows 11 Pro edition now requires internet connectivity during the initial device setup (OOBE) only. If you choose to setup device for personal use, MSA will be required for setup as well. You can expect Microsoft Account to be required in subsequent WIP flights.
    • If you're running older Wifi equipment, TKIP & WEP might no longer be supported in a future release.
      Quote Originally Posted by Windows.com
      TKIP and WEP are deprecated security standards and Windows 11 will no longer allow connections to those types starting with this build. Contact your network administrator or update your router to one that supports at least WPA2 (WPA3 is the current standard).
    • Storage Sense could be enabled by default, automatically clearing out temp files & the recycle bin potentially without you realising
      Quote Originally Posted by Windows.com
      Storage Sense will now be enabled by default for PCs going through OOBE. Your current settings will be persisted on upgrade. You can configure your Storage Sense settings under System > Storage.

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    blueball
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    Re: Windows 11 Insider Preview points of interest - Build 22557

    "Pro users could now be forced to be online during the OOBE phase as well as forcing a Microsoft Account."

    GOODBYE WIN11

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    Re: Windows 11 Insider Preview points of interest - Build 22557

    I assume the Microsoft account can be removed after install?
    Jon

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    Re: Windows 11 Insider Preview points of interest - Build 22557

    Quote Originally Posted by blueball View Post
    "Pro users could now be forced to be online during the OOBE phase as well as forcing a Microsoft Account."

    GOODBYE WIN11
    Completely agree, about the desirability of that, but then, it's no secret I'm not a fan of Win11, or even MS since the Win8 days.

    Personally, and I've been saying this since Win8, I think it all indicates the MS long-term agenda, what I referred to as their "direction of travel". It's just slowly getting more overt.

    For my recent system purchase, I explicitly went for W!0 and it's staying on 10, and it's why (along with price) I stayed with current gen Ryzen, rather than Intel 12th Gen/DDR5 - I'm not going to lock myself in to W11 (if I want the performance benefits). The current stuff ain't exactly slow, and for me, it's fast enough for now and a considerable time in the future. Maybe by then, everything (or at least, everything I need) will be available on Linux .... or some of what I need will have changed.

    But this mandatory account thingy is something that, a), was easy to see coming, and b), as the saying goes, "up with which I will not put".
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: Windows 11 Insider Preview points of interest - Build 22557

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonj1611 View Post
    I assume the Microsoft account can be removed after install?
    Even if so, you have to wonder how long before, say, updates, will be accessible without one? As I mentioned in the last post ... "direction of travel". Or, "the thin end of the wedge".
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: Windows 11 Insider Preview points of interest - Build 22557

    Quote Originally Posted by blueball View Post
    "Pro users could now be forced to be online during the OOBE phase as well as forcing a Microsoft Account."

    GOODBYE WIN11
    Once it's enforced on Win 11, there's nothing to stop MS from doing the exact same to Win 10 users.

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    Re: Windows 11 Insider Preview points of interest - Build 22557

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonj1611 View Post
    I assume the Microsoft account can be removed after install?
    Having done a little searching, a few comments seem to suggest this method is possible. It would be difficult for Microsoft to remove the classic offline user completely, especially in business, these users are often created for things like Scheduled or other automated tasks that it would be utterly pointless to make them online based. Similarly in a kiosk type environment, you don't generally want online based users.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen999 View Post
    Personally, and I've been saying this since Win8, I think it all indicates the MS long-term agenda, what I referred to as their "direction of travel". It's just slowly getting more overt.
    Agreed, I've certainly felt they've been following in Google's footprint for a while, once Microsoft saw their model worked, Gates' & Ballmer's era came to a swift end. When they realised money can be made from the customer beyond buying the OS, the old way was over. It's a pretty big deal when they feel the need to drop their own browser engines for a competitor and have to start making their own devices (Surface).

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    Re: Windows 11 Insider Preview points of interest - Build 22557

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Once it's enforced on Win 11, there's nothing to stop MS from doing the exact same to Win 10 users.
    Nothing technical. But I wonder if, first, it's worth the inevitable backlash, and as an adjunct to that, there's enough users to be worth it.

    I mean, sure, W10 is stll a very large proportion of users but it'll decrease over time. But W10 users going through OOBE has to be a far smaller number. I sure don't, except on new machines and I guess they'll be getting as many users of new machines as they can onto W11, not 10.

    Could they do it? Presumably. But will they bother trying? Dunno.

    Oh, and of those determined to not have an MS account, that they are that determined suggests a level of familiarity, and they're probably familiar enough to install from an existing image that doesn't require that, then once installed (and not going through OOBE) ... update.

    So .... will they lock such users, legitimate users, out of updates by trying to force use of an MS account? It seems like an unnecessary fight to pick.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: Windows 11 Insider Preview points of interest - Build 22557

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen999 View Post
    So .... will they lock such users, legitimate users, out of updates by trying to force use of an MS account? It seems like an unnecessary fight to pick.
    Oh I'm sure MS would show more finesse than that, but I'm finding Windows 10 gets increasingly cranky by the release if you refuse to sign in on a fresh install.

    I don't know quite how bad this stuff is, even though I believe I've been stung by it. MS basically lost control of a lot of licences when Windows 10 upgrades happened. I certainly have a bunch of motherboards running Linux that have at some time or other run Windows 10 so if I installed Windows on them they would send their fingerprint to MS and then activate automatically. I'm sure MS, being MS, will assume that all PC hardware must be running Windows and therefore those motherboards are licence theft. Anyway, I digress...

    At one point I bought a Windows 8 Pro licence as MS were offering them cheap. I never actually installed Windows 8, but the licence works just fine for 10 and being a full licence is movable around machines so got used as a sort of test machine licence. That is up until I used it on a machine for my eldest son. He did a Windows re-install, logged into his MS account and so AIUI that licence is now his. That's only annoying because he now has a laptop which came with its own OEM licence, the workstation is back running Linux and I don't actually know if I can still use that licence key without his password.

    I do have an MS account, because I have Minecraft (and for that matter, an old Skype account). I just go to great lengths not to tie things into it. Just like MS try so hard to make me log in.

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    Re: Windows 11 Insider Preview points of interest - Build 22557

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    ....

    At one point I bought a Windows 8 Pro licence as MS were offering them cheap. I never actually installed Windows 8, but the licence works just fine for 10 and being a full licence is movable around machines so got used as a sort of test machine licence.

    ...
    Well, damn. I have a (so far) unused full W8 Pro licence sitting here, bought 'cos they were cheap, back when MS were still charging with no 'free' route. I was going to try that, but now I know it works. I mean, I knew I should be able to install it as W8 and still (apparently) qualify for a free upgrade (at least, unofficially) but if it works going straight to W10, so much the better .... if I ever need it.

    On the "MS account mandatory" thing, it was mentioned in passing on the WAN show last night and if I heard right (I was only half-listening) there are 'work-arounds'. That's not a huge shock, but I don't off-hand know what it/they are, or how fiddly they are to do. I vaguely remember seeing something (elsewhere else, not on WAN show) about audit mode and OOBE script editing, which is a faff. And, if MS are determined to shut that down, dunno how long they'll work for.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: Windows 11 Insider Preview points of interest - Build 22557

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    At one point I bought a Windows 8 Pro licence as MS were offering them cheap. I never actually installed Windows 8, but the licence works just fine for 10 and being a full licence is movable around machines so got used as a sort of test machine licence. That is up until I used it on a machine for my eldest son. He did a Windows re-install, logged into his MS account and so AIUI that licence is now his. That's only annoying because he now has a laptop which came with its own OEM licence, the workstation is back running Linux and I don't actually know if I can still use that licence key without his password.
    When I sell my motherboards I've gotten into the habit of installing a blank version of Windows 10 and putting in an Evaluation Key, forcing the next owner to have their own.

    EDIT: This might be useful to unbind your key from your Son's Microsoft account
    https://www.intowindows.com/how-to-u...osoft-account/
    Last edited by AGTDenton; 12-03-2022 at 07:11 PM.

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    Re: Windows 11 Insider Preview points of interest - Build 22557

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen999 View Post
    Well, damn. I have a (so far) unused full W8 Pro licence sitting here, bought 'cos they were cheap, back when MS were still charging with no 'free' route. I was going to try that, but now I know it works. I mean, I knew I should be able to install it as W8 and still (apparently) qualify for a free upgrade (at least, unofficially) but if it works going straight to W10, so much the better .... if I ever need it.
    It works with Windows 7 too....even OEM licenses. I recently gave an old OEM W7 key from a decommissioned machine a try on a new Windows 10 install and it activated fine. Microsoft doesn't seem to care much currently, which probably aligns with their "free" OS upgrade mantra.

    I know there is a lot of talk about how 'legit' it is to move OEM licenses around in such a way, with various EU rulings* on the matter which need someone smarter than me to interpret them, but MS just activates it without question in my experience. That's good enough for me.

    * https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...b-0f0b4bb454f9
    * https://curia.europa.eu/juris/docume...1&cid=716084--
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Re: Windows 11 Insider Preview points of interest - Build 22557

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    I know there is a lot of talk about how 'legit' it is to move OEM licenses around in such a way, with various EU rulings* on the matter which need someone smarter than me to interpret them, but MS just activates it without question in my experience. That's good enough for me.
    In summary: If you bought the OEM license directly i.e. separate from a device, then you may transfer it to another device that you own.
    If the OEM licence came with a device preinstalled then you may not transfer it to another device. But you may transfer the device to another user.

    Hopefully this helps in everyone's understanding about transferring your OEM license, one to save or bookmark:


    Quote Originally Posted by Microsoft.com
    4. Transfer.
    1. Software preinstalled on device. If you acquired the software preinstalled on a device (and also if you upgraded from software preinstalled on a device), you may transfer the license to use the software directly to another user, only with the licensed device. The transfer must include the software and, if provided with the device, an authentic Windows label including the product key. Before any permitted transfer, the other party must agree that this agreement applies to the transfer and use of the software.
    2. Stand-alone software. If you acquired the software as stand-alone software (and also if you upgraded from software you acquired as stand-alone software), you may transfer the software to another device that belongs to you. You may also transfer the software to a device owned by someone else if (i) you are the first licensed user of the software and (ii) the new user agrees to the terms of this agreement. You may use the backup copy we allow you to make or the media that the software came on to transfer the software. Every time you transfer the software to a new device, you must remove the software from the prior device. You may not transfer the software to share licenses between devices.
    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Uset...10_English.htm
    Last edited by AGTDenton; 13-03-2022 at 03:20 PM.

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    Re: Windows 11 Insider Preview points of interest - Build 22557

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    It works with Windows 7 too....even OEM licenses. I recently gave an old OEM W7 key from a decommissioned machine a try on a new Windows 10 install and it activated fine. Microsoft doesn't seem to care much currently, which probably aligns with their "free" OS upgrade mantra.

    I know there is a lot of talk about how 'legit' it is to move OEM licenses around in such a way, with various EU rulings* on the matter which need someone smarter than me to interpret them, but MS just activates it without question in my experience. That's good enough for me.

    * https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...b-0f0b4bb454f9
    * https://curia.europa.eu/juris/docume...1&cid=716084--
    First, interesting. Very interesting.

    Second, "good enough for me". Agreed, utterly.

    Third, the nit-pickypart of me is interested a bit beyond that. The pragmatic bit says that if MS don't care, i sure don't. But what interested me was in the "OEM Licence" bit of that info, where it says
    Microsoft's Distribution Agreement for System Builders states that the system builder software packs are not intended for distribution to end users unless the end users are acting as system builders by assembling their own PCs. A "system builder" is anyone who assembles, reassembles or installs software on a new or used computer system.
    I think any of us could drive an ocean-going oil-supertanker, never mind a coach and horses, through a door that big.

    "assembles or re-assembles"?

    So, if I take a couple of boards out, and then put them back in, I've "re-assembled"?

    But even bigger than that, "installs software"?

    Excluding users like company staff that just use a PC supplied, configured and maintained by, an only by their IT staff, or users of embedded Windows like ATM users or shop checkout staff where the 'till' happens to run embedded Windows, who doesn't? By that definition, anyone that's installed a browser, or an AV suite, a password manager, browser plug-in even, or .... absolutely any piece off software no matter how trivial .... qualifies.

    Wow.

    And .... both new and used PCs?

    I think every piece of computer equipment I've ever touched (except mainframes back in the '60s-'70s) qualifies, from my Apple II Europlus, to my phone, to my latest laptop.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: Windows 11 Insider Preview points of interest - Build 22557

    Quote Originally Posted by AGTDenton View Post
    In summary: If you bought the OEM license directly i.e. separate from a device, then you may transfer it to another device that you own.
    If the OEM licence came with a device preinstalled then you may not transfer it to another device. But you may transfer the device to another user.

    Hopefully this helps in everyone's understanding about transferring your OEM license, one to save or bookmark:

    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Uset...10_English.htm
    This is where I'm a bit confused on how Microsoft thinks this can apply to the EU ruling, which stated:

    The software company shall not prevent the further sale of its license, and usage of its software, including OEM, DSP and ESD versions. The software company’s copyright is exhausted when its software has been sold for the first time. The individual sale of Volume License and the trading of online transferable licenses are permitted. (C-128/11., EU 2001/29/EG, 28., 2009/24/EK)
    From a layman's point of view, that seems quite a clear-cut case to me.

    It wouldn't be the first time that Microsoft has put unenforceable terms into the EULA, if that's the case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Re: Windows 11 Insider Preview points of interest - Build 22557

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen999 View Post
    Wow.
    Yup
    Variations of this have been around for as long as I can remember. It's so broad, it effectively means nothing in the real world.

    When I used to work with system integrators, it was common to state that OEM = no support from Microsoft to the end customer. I think what they're saying in the legal jargon is mostly that the customer is on their own / at the mercy of your system builder for support with OEM. Which is fine, the licenses are significantly cheaper.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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