Moving To Linux

[Jonj1611]

Lately Windows 11 has been getting on my nerves a bit. Everytime I seem to sign out of something, I am signed in somewhere else. Microsoft account here, there, everywhere. I have a local account to sign in but still have found certain things need a log in of some kind, somewhere down the line.

So have decided to go to Linux. Now I am going to have to dual boot. Unfortunately I cannot get rid of Windows fully as I need it for a) some games that don't work with linux, b) some apps that don't have a linux version, c) misc

Also I don't want to go full power user Linux so have decided to go with Pop OS for now but open to other alternatives that are similar.

Interested to hear if anyone has any experience with it?

[Saracen999]

Lately Windows 11 has been getting on my nerves a bit. Everytime I seem to sign out of something, I am signed in somewhere else. Microsoft account here, there, everywhere. I have a local account to sign in but still have found certain things need a log in of some kind, somewhere down the line.

....

My thoughts on Windows aren't exactly a secret round these parts, having taken every opportunity (and created a few) to whinga about it since W8.

That said, my "daily driver" laptop is a Windows (10) machine and I don't have an MS account. At all. So I can't sign in even if I wanted to, because I've done a passable impression of a pee'd off mountain goat's stubbornness, dug my heels (hooves?) in and said "No, nope, no-way-in-hell, bleep-that and, in case it wasn't clear, NO" to an MS account.

And still no signing in.

Yes, I use Linux too but not on this machine. Yes, I dumped MS Office (under whatever name) and use Libre instead. No, I don't use hotmail, MS cloud storage or any other such "account-based" service.

That is part of the cost of telling MS where to stick their account.

All of which tells me you should be able to re-jig what you currently do to avoid MS account nagging. The only time I've been asked for an account in years was when doing a Windows install (or re-install) and so far, there's always been a way to avoid it, though it's getting harder and harder to find it. Which is the theme of one of my favourite MS whinges.

I'm NOT saying switching to Linux is a bad idea. Far from it. But it shouldn't be necessary if that's the only stressor causing you to want to do it. Other things might make it desirable, not least being security. It is, IMHO, inherently safer (if set up properly). But, you'll also be behind the curve with a lot of new developments. In short, money talks and MS have mountains of it.

So do it by all means, but it's something of a learning curve, not least, finding alternates for the software/apps you need or really want. There's usually something there, often both open source and very good, but getting there is a PITA.

As for distro's, I'm the wrong person to advise. I looked around about 10 years ago, settled on Ubuntu and still use it. I'm not sure I would if starting today, so I won't comment on that.

As for dual-boot, I kinda cheated. This was back in pretty much pre-SSD days (for me at least, due to cost/GB back then). So, I got a drive cage (Icybox, I think) with removable cages, for 3.5" drives, and put Windows (different versions) on a couple of boot HDs, and Linux on another. My dual (or quadruple) boot was to shut down, change drives, boot up. It worked and zero faffing with software boot managers etc, which I'd also found to be a PITA. Add a 2.5 to 3.5" adapter and some 2.5" SSDs and I was then doing the same thing with SSD boot. I never got as far as looking at M.2 solutions for that.

Note - i do still have some old hardware for which I can't find Linux drivers, and some software I don't want to be forced to abandon, that still requires Windows. Also, I don't game much, but what I do do is also on Windows .... except for Steamdeck, but that's kinda cheating. Yes, it's Linux, but not so your average user would ever notice. It's too turnkey for that.

[Jonj1611]

I think Pop OS is built on Ubuntu and many things work out the box. Others will need a little help. I am not actually set on that particular distro it's just the one that I thought would encompass my needs and they have an update coming out early next year I believe after a while of no major updates. We will see, pretty much up in there.

As for Windows. It does what I need. I have advocated Windows for years but Windows 11 is just pushing its luck now. Settings I seem to turn off are coming back on with minor updates. Office is a good example, I sometimes need to login to my office account on my PC, which I do then log off but then when I start Outlook I am signed in and have to sign out again.

It's not just that of course there have been many things over the course of the last year or so and its not something I am doing on a whim. I still need Windows, its a must for me unfortunately as there are things I just have to use that aren't available on Linux. Though the majority of the stuff I can use alternatives.

I have Windows 10 on my laptop, that won't be changing. Just the main PC.

I think what really tipped me over the edge, and excuse the pun was edge. I use Firefox myself but there are times I have needed to use Edge. Not sure what they have done to it but reminds me of the goold old days of 00's with bars of icons everywhere and things to enchance your "shopping" experience. I am sure most can be turned off but whatever.

My motherboard can take 5 NVME's, I have 2 in currently, one I will use just for the Linux OS, that way I don't get into the messiness of multiple partitions with Windows though I think GRUB will still reside on the "main" Windows drive somewhere as its the boot drive

And finally I think a change is what I need. At least for the day to day tasks, gaming I can stick with Windows for things that don't work on Linux. I am not a Windows hater by any stretch just feel I am selling a bit more of myself everytime I start the PC

[Jonj1611]

I do feel Linux's strength is its weakness.

So many distros + desktop environments = an awful lot of choice.

No wonder people give up before getting started. You read one review telling you have amazing a distro is then read another saying the complete opposite

[Saracen999]

Yeah, true enough, but massive choice is a double-edged sword - yes, it's a pain to get your head around for a novice. It was when I did it and eventually I just went "Oh, bleep it, Ubuntu looks good and it's free so what the bleep, I'm trying it. I can always dtch it and try something else." At some point, you'll need to do that, I suspect. Reading reviews only gets you so far.

As for person A thinks it's the best thing since the invention of the wheel and person (or site) B thinks it's the spawn of the devil? Well, this is the tech world. PC v Apple? Intel v AMD? AMD V nVidia? And so on.

It's a bit like, oh, Klipsch horn speakers - some people like the sound (inc. me) and others really, really don't like it. But I say to the "no" camp, "fair enough, but you're listening with your ears and I'm listening with mine. Since I can't use your ears, I'll go with the ones I have". In fact, it's like pretty much everything in hifi .... opinions are like ***holes - everybody's got one.

[Jonj1611]

Agreed, in the end I went with my own thoughts but honestly still not sure its going to be right for me so going to give it a go and as its installed on a separate drive I can just wipe and try something else if its not what I want. Think Grub will be the fun part, have had never ending issues with that over the years.

In the end have gone with Endeavour OS

[Jonatron]

For multi booting, try rEFInd. It should just auto detect all OSes on all drives.

[Jonj1611]

Sorry mate must have missed your post. I went with Grub in the end because that was the only option that and symd or something. Can't remember the name.

All installed ok and I am loving it to be frank.

I would like to say I wish I done this years ago but frankly I did. About 20 years ago, then 10, 5, 2 etc. Had many stabs at Linux in the past and everything I tried never quite felt right, always something missing somewhere but now yeaht think its all there. Everything I need anyway including the games I play.

I am still an avid email fan and had no end of trouble getting Outlook to import into Thunderbird so gave up on that and used Evolution.

So I am still using both operating systems as moving stuff over to linux but all going well. I still need Windows for some games and some programmes I use need a windows system and won't run properly in a VM due to using the com port (car diagnostics)

[DanceswithUnix]

Don't sweat needing a Windows dual boot. I'm typing this on a Fedora Linux box with an uptime of 14 days and made the switch to Linux on a 386 machine some 30 years ago, but if I want to play a recent game etc I will happily reboot into Windows. I find I'm a lot more relaxed about Windows as well, given that I don't actually rely on it for more than launching games as the occasional Windows only utility.

[Saracen999]

Sounds like very similar scenario to me. Except that the whole situation with Windows started to irritate me beyond where I was willing to grin and bear it with the whole "start menu" debacle in W8. And contrary to the impression I may hav given back then, it wasn't about the start menu, per se. That was just the most glaringly obvious symptom, not the actual disease. The disease was the direction of travel MS appeared to be signalling. So the "start menu" motivated me to finally give Linux a serious atempt.

I don't regret it either, though I too even now still have a few things I use Windows for. That's partly why I've stuck with W10 and dug my heels in (again) re: W11. W11 offers me nothing I need that I can't get/do with W10, and it either demands or firmly pushes me to things I emphatically don't want. Like the menu bar at the bottom.

Yes, in the scheme of things it's trivial, and yes, I could get used to it - hell, i bought an iPad Pro knowing full well where the menu bar was, and how it was aligned, and I can use that just fine. But on Windows, I've had my Start button/menu top-left since, well, Windows was still in short trousers if not nappies. I don't want to change how I've use it for <mumble> decades because some <bleeeeep> in Seattle thinks that it's a good idea. This week.

Yes, it's being .... fussy. But dammit, I'm old enough to indulge in some Grumpy-Old-Man-ism if I want to.

More to the point, going top-left is muscle memory at this point and I have zeo inclination to change it at the whim of MS.

And THAT is core to why MS gave me th hump. They COULD have left these things optional, set the default to whatever their latest UI wheeze is and let US decide. But no.

So .... as the only viable protest, for all it's worth, is my own choices, I no longer use any MS Office product (after decades of that, too), use Libre on Linux and Linux on several of my machines where I have little choice, and at best, dual-boot on others which usually goes to Linux. Also, I refuse point-blank to use ANY MS online services from Hotmail, Outlook etc to 'free' cloud services. I'll cheerfully pay for non-MS products and services rather than do that.

In short, about the only time I use MS is for Windows, and about the only time I use Windows is on this laptop which, being a gaming laptop (mobile 3080 era), came with Win 10 already on it.

It's getting close to the point where I could exclusively game on Linux too but. IMHO, isn't quite there yet. Or to put it slightly differently, I could probably get away with doing it all on Linux BUT, at the cost of a degree of faffing about and learning curve that, at this point in my life, holds no appeal. I'm old enough to be oh-so-aware of the ticking clock and I value each passing hour. When gaming entirely on Linux is sufficently polished that it involves no compromises, faff or hassle, I'll be on it like flies on a fresh dogpile. When/if I no longer need the few remaining utilities or drivers for which I can't find a Linux option, then I'll be out of the MS environment so fast the door won't come even close to hitting me in the ass on my way through. I might well set a new land speed reord, though.

Other than gaming, and a few old but useful bits of hardware, Linux does everything I need/want and I currently use Windows only out of necessity, not inclination. I sure don't regret switching, and just wish I could complete the exit.


Does the fact that I'm still a smidge ittitated with MS till show?

Oh.

[Jonj1611]

I know its probably a cliche but I do feel quite a bit free-er.

I think at the end I was using programs like Shut up to disable so much telemetry it was just getting silly and then the fact Microsoft were logging me in to a programme when I had no knowledge of that really did it for me.

There are still some things I really really am trying to get working on Linux for which there are work around and thats icloud. Something about taking a picture on my phone and then it appear in a folder saves me a lot of hassle. There are other options like drop box etc but for the amount of storage you get icloud is the best option just trying to work out how to use it with Linux.

As I said previously, I am using Endeavour OS with KDE environment.

I remember like many others I expect linux from years ago, trying to faff around getting the mouse to work let alone anything else, I was suprised how far everything has come. My wireless HP Laserjet was installed with ease. On first boot my Corsair HS70 wireless headphones were setup and ready to go. I mean everything just worked. And yet I know there will be issues in some departments but so so impressed at the moment.

However I still need to use Windows and thats ok, nearly everything I put on has been removed now apart from games, utils and some programmes. I am not anti-microsoft, haven't downloaded a penguin killing microsoft wallpaper or anything so not quite there on that front and Windows has been a saviour for me over the years. My first "desktop" was an Apricot F1e. At the time friends or rather their parents who were lucky enough to have a PC had a mix of Amstrad with the GEM desktop, Tandy with Deskmate, IBM with OS/2. It was good something came and brought them all together.

However Windows 11, just feels like it was designed to suck every last bit of information out of you. Feels like Westworld series 3 and that big machine just pulling in all your data

Anwyay enough of that. Onwards we go....

[Jonj1611]

For multi booting, try rEFInd. It should just auto detect all OSes on all drives.

I have been looking into this more, mainly because I may need to move the installation to a different drive.

Is it possible to use rEFInd to replace grub?

I am in a bit of a bind I guess as I haven't installed so much of Linux yet that its not impossible to just remove it all and start again but I believe grub can be a bit awkward to remove and I can end up losing boot access to Windows

Useless bit of info but this is my first post using Linux. All working well, nothing on fire, all good.

[Jonj1611]

Also isn't there something about a microcode for Intel that needs to be injected on boot??

[Jonj1611]

If I just run "refind-install" will it take care of everthing?

[DanceswithUnix]

Also isn't there something about a microcode for Intel that needs to be injected on boot??

If your BIOS doesn't deal with it, then the Linux kernel should. In Fedora at least, it's automatically handled and updated with the rest of the system.

[Jonj1611]

Obviously a bit new to Linux, is there anyway I can find out?

Honestly might as well be talking a different language when I tried searching about it. I am using Endeavour OS