What to do about Windows 10?

[joshwa]

Next year, Oct 2025, Windows 10 is becoming "unsupported" and won't get security updates... Unless you're part of a corporate account OR pay $30 for an extra 12 months... Or use 0patch (which costs money)...

But what about people who don't want to spend money?

Will something like legacy update come about to update old PCs for free?

Also, how can Microsoft be so blasé about the inevitable mountain of ewaste this will cause?

[Ice Tea]

Ubuntu , Linux.

In before someone else says it.

[DanceswithUnix]

SteamOS perhaps if you just want to play games?

Possibly you can just hack Windows 11 onto your old PC: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024...supported-pcs/

I have a PC here quite capable of running 11, but I haven't allowed it to switch over yet. Still don't see anything in it for me Guess at some point I will have to move with the times though.

There are several laptops around the house, and not a single one is W11 capable though, so that might be a bit more interesting.

[Percy1983]

It is an interesting point, most of my pcs/laptops have no gone to 11 with no issues but I do have a a couple of devices 'stuck' on 10 which are still perfectly usable and in use.

I have a 18 core 36 thread xeon with 64gb ram as a work machine which I might be able to get a tpm module for, the others are low use media extenders as such, I will have to weigh up staying on vs 'hacked install' 11.

[[GSV]Trig]

I wish MS would stop messing with Windows, they get it right, then they break it, then they fix it, then they make it worse...
Apple just have the Core OS that they leave pretty much alone, *nix, not ready for everyday home use...

[joshwa]

I think there will be a large number of general users who will either be unaware or ignore the issue, or feel the need to buy new hardware and then throw away their old kit.

And even though Linux exists, what likelihood is there for general people to switch to it? Even (many) tech enthusiasts are reluctant to switch to Linux.

In an ideal world Microsoft could be releasing a Windows 11 Lite that works with old hardware (or Windows 10 ESU for longer than 12 months).

[[GSV]Trig]

I was thinking Windows 11 Core, a version you have to pay for yes, rather than the 'Free upgrade' that many have had over the years, they bought Windows 7 or whatever and have been rolling along with the free upgrades for aaaages now..
Get it free, expect the BS that comes with it these days, have a slightly different SKU and MS know which version you have and install fluff accordingly...

[jimbouk]

Ignore the problem for a while, then Linux/dual boot I guess. I'm not going to bin perfectly good computers. I guess the issue is going to be accessing work remotely - I'm not sure how Linux friendly our work tools are so I might need a lightweight Win11 box just for that.

[Ttaskmaster]

Also, how can Microsoft be so blasé about the inevitable mountain of ewaste this will cause?

Companies have to innovate and move forward, else they'll stagnate and die.
Ideally we should all still be using Win 3.11, I'm sure, but even cars nowadays have cybersecurity regulations and standards they must meet...

[badass]

Companies have to innovate and move forward, else they'll stagnate and die.
Ideally we should all still be using Win 3.11, I'm sure, but even cars nowadays have cybersecurity regulations and standards they must meet...

Yes. They do. In a large part because they keep adding crap that most customers of new cars don't even want such as sluggish touchscreen based everything. Combine the shoehorning of software into a car with the lack of experience of software development of any car manufacturer and you end up with vehicles that provide their users with few to no benefits but a hugely increased attack surface. Due to the safety critical nature of cars this has led to inevitable legislation and the costs that come with that.

[kalniel]

I'm sceptical MS will halt security patches in a year. I doubt people will think 'oh, I must get new hardware' instead they'll just stick on the same old version, so it'll be a vuln nightmare for MS unless adoption improves. The last thing they need is even more of a reputation for insecure software.

[AGTDenton]

If friends/family/collegues ask me directly that won't/can't upgrade to 11 I tell them not to panic, its not a switch off date.
I can offer to get Windows 11 installed for them when their Hardware says no, if they want it, or advise them how to stay secure on 10 once that date comes.

Microsoft continued to issue Defender updates 3 years after the Extended Support end date arrived for Windows 7.

I have a 18 core 36 thread xeon with 64gb ram as a work machine which I might be able to get a tpm module for, the others are low use media extenders as such, I will have to weigh up staying on vs 'hacked install' 11.

You can use Rufus which will legitimately bypass all the CPU requirements & TPM nonsense, the only caveat is you might not get feature updates (I'm sure people will have found a way round this by now). You will get all the security updates as normal.

[Saracen999]

I'm sceptical MS will halt security patches in a year. I doubt people will think 'oh, I must get new hardware' instead they'll just stick on the same old version, so it'll be a vuln nightmare for MS unless adoption improves. The last thing they need is even more of a reputation for insecure software.

I don't think this has been pointed out yet (I skimmed the thread and didn't see it) but, they aren't going to stop support when it initially appeared they were. It's just that it's going to cost. IIRC, £30 for another year.

To be clear though, that's "urgent and intermediate security updates" ONLY. It's not miscellaneous bug-fixes, and certainly not new features. That said, not getting "new features" is a double-edged sword - part of the reason I still use W10 is I emphatically don't want some of those new features (like Co-Pilot, let alone the disaster-in-waiting that is Recall). Yes, I know they can be "disabled" and even sort-of 'removed', but I don't want to have to mess with it in the frst place ... which is why I'm looking for the best CPU for a system build that doesn't have the neural processors (currently) required for their AI rubbish.

Anyway back on track .... there was a recent announcement that, for the first time, consumers would be able to get the ESU (extended support) for basic cover after EOL that has been available to business users (at a non-trivial ccost) for years. Details are limited though. While the business level support is at least 3 years, getting progressivey more expensive each year, so far, all MS have said about consumers is "one extra year" and, £30-ish.

What, if any, support is available to consumers after the end of the paid-for extra year isn't yet clear. It maybe that there's one year, and that's your lot. It may be that consumers end up getting get three years, at £30-ish per year. Or it may end up like business support and doubling each extra year (i.e. years 2 and 3 at £60 and £120 respectively). Or someting else.

Personally, my attitude is that what I will do depends specifically on what hardware I have, and critically, what I want it to be able to do.

Stage 1 - I don't want W11 at all, if I can possibly help it. There might come a point when I feel I have no practical choice. But I'll put it off as long as I reasonably can.

Stage 2 - Linux. A fair bit of what I want a PC for will run just fine on Linux, obvious examples being all my WP, spreadsheet etc stuff, seeing as I switched to LibreOffice (on Win10) when MS started pushing Office 365. I am not paying subscriptions that for kind of stuff. However, some people (where work requires it) might have no choice but to stick with MS Office.

In which case, MY solution would be as basic a PC as possible with W11/MS Office, for anything requiring full compatibility. Preferably, if work needs it, work can supply the hardware. I'm retired, so (thankfully) that's a non-issue.

Stage 3 - Some stuff I need requires Windows. So, one of my older machines will probably always be running Win 10. BUT .... once out of support, it won't be on a network with any possibility of accessing the internet.

Stage 4 - What do I actually do that requires a net connection? A bit of web browsing? For sure, but to be honest, it's getting less and less. Forum activity is, for me, at it's lowest level since it was created, with this place and occasional presence at two or three others being it. Email? Yeah, a bit, but TBH, that's dropping too. My more important personal communications is on a secure message platform (Signal) these days, so I do less by email than I used to, especially since retiring. Online banking and online shopping? I don't actually do that much of either, really.

So .... I can have a dedicated computer that doesn't need to be particularly powerful, running whatever OS I deem fit (whether W11, or Ubuntu, Mint, whatever) because my online activities don't require much more than a decent (privacy-conscious) web browser.

Stage 5 - Gaming. Hmmm. Trickier. But, I don't play games where the actual gameplay is online, and haven't for many years. The ONLY things I have any interest in playing are single-player games but, at least some, still require a net connection (maybe just to install, maybe to start-up, maybe constantly, though I don't currently have any of the latter).

Stage 6 - I'm preparing to move from mostly machines on a network with internet access and a couple of machines that are air-gapped, to exactly the other way round. If the ONLY machines I have with a net-connection are doing basic tasks like web browsing (inc shopping, banking and watching Youtube), then I can probably get away with doing that on, say, a relatively basic laptop running Linux.

Other stuff, like video editing, gaming, whatever, can happily run on a network with Win 10 systems, ny NAS's etc and the risk factor from W10 being unsupported is effectively zero, because they are never connected to the internet.

Yeah, technically, someone could physically break in and hack my unsupported W10 machines but the logistics of that, given that there's nothing on those systems of any value to anyone else, is such that I put the probability at vanishingly cose to zero.



To sum up, my opinion is that EVERYONE is going to face the choices as follows :-

- bite the bullet and use W11, OR
- switch to other OS's, like some flavour of Linux, OR
- find some blend of the above sort of stages that suits YOUR usage.

I didn't mention it above, but I do also have an M2 iPad Pro. It's a lovely little machine, pretty powerful, beautiful screen etc. I could just use that for the very limited stuff that needs internet, including Youtube etc. Regulars will know I'm pretty privacy-conscious so me even having an iPad might be a shock as it's no better, maybe worse, than MS for privacy. Not least because I've fairly thoroughly de-fanged MS's intrusions into my privacy, starting with not having an MS account at all, and secondly, debloating and fairly thoroughly neutering MS's nosiness. That, of course, is next to impossible with Apple. But I can neuter what Apple know about me by careful choice of what I do on the iPad.



My actual usage of PCs has dropped a lot in recent years. Partly, it's due to retiring. Partly, because of privacy concerns. Partly just 'cos I'm getting older and a lot of stuff "kids" (anyone under about 40) do online interests me not at all, with FB, X, Tiktok, Insta-whatever etc, being at the top of my personal "hell, NO" list. Even Youtube I do without an account. Oh, and for about a year now, my mobile phone has been SIM-less, and I can't say it's been a problem. And as for Meta .... <shudder>.

So I feel I can manage pretty well without needing Win11. Ubuntu/Mint (or similar) will do the vast bulk of what I need, from LibreOffice to OBS. A laptop (or iPad) for casual browsing, Youtube etc, and my music/video streaming, etc, SOLELY from NAS and isolated from the internet entirely, means I can just carry on with Win 10 sans any form of support at all.

I susoect though, that most people, eventually and in many cases, through gritted teeth, will just end up going to Win11. Some will dig in and migrate full-time to Linux. While doing that is far, far easier than it used to be, it's still not entirely trouble-free (especially for gaming) but no matter how good, or easy, it becomes, my bet is that the vast bulk of non-techie type users are probably never going to give the idea the time of day, even if they have heard of Linux. It's 'reputation', baked in many years ago, persists in the common perception as "hard". And they aren't going to give it any consideration at all.

So eventually, even if kicking and screaming, most users will end up on W11, like it or loathe it.

[DanceswithUnix]

I've been seeing a lot of adverts recently suggesting I switch old laptops to ChromeOS. Might not be a bad shout for some people.

[AGTDenton]

I've been seeing a lot of adverts recently suggesting I switch old laptops to ChromeOS. Might not be a bad shout for some people.

FydeOS might be of interest. It's also built on Chromium with the same interface but not as locked down and restricted like ChromeOS.

[Ice Tea]

FydeOS might be of interest. It's also built on Chromium with the same interface but not as locked down and restricted like ChromeOS.

FydeOS is headquartered in Beijing, China.

I had a look at this and it doesn't garner very much trust from user comments online.