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Thread: Convert me to XP

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    Wink Convert me to XP

    I plan to reinstall my OS next week, and I have the choice of sticking with Windows 2000 or moving over to Windows XP (Or maybe even 2003, if there's reason enough for it). However, I'm not going to upgrade just because XP is "newer" - I want tangible reasons to do so. "More features" doesn't cut it either. So I'm drawing up a list of pro's and cons. So far, I have:

    For XP:
    Windows 2000 is at end-of-life support, ie. security updates only
    XP has support for networking over firewire
    Monad (The new Microsoft command shell) requires XP at a minimum
    Internet Explorer 7.0, same as above
    Easier networking, including Wireless Zero Configuration for wireless LANs
    Lots of built-in drivers
    Enhanced security features, in terms of tokens and priviledges

    Against XP:
    Teletubby Inside (MSN, WMP, DRM, etc.), which involves additional effort to remove
    Windows Activation will be a pain since I change my hardware often
    Having to learn where all the settings and options have moved to since 2K
    Some more money goes into Microsoft's pocket
    More bloat


    What else can I put on my list?
    Last edited by eldren; 24-12-2005 at 10:18 AM.

  2. #2
    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    And that if you buy it now, you'll hardly get your monies worth because VISTA is just around the corner!
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    Ex-MSFT Paul Adams's Avatar
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    The UI for XP can be reverted to "classic" (W2K) mode easily in Explorer to assist with the migration to the new interface.

    Activation is automated via the Internet if connected, and should the number of activations with significant hardware changes hit the threshold you can make a toll-free phone call to reactivate.

    Windows 2003 is a server OS, why would you be considering a choice between a workstation OS and that? It's also a lot more expensive and has a different bias than XP (background apps & services get more preference.


    XP Benefits:

    Firewall integrated and enabled by default on SP2 (protects against unsolicited inbound connections and prevents apps setting themselves up as servers without your knowledge).

    Internet Explorer 7.0 isn't going to be backported (AFAIK) to W2K.

    More extensive built-in driver support in XP.

    Fast user switching can be convenient if multiple people use the system.

    Wireless Zero Configuration service makes life a lot easier to connect to WLANs (also not sure if W2K has WPA support).

    64-bit version is available if you feel so inclined.
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    Senior Member ifyouknowme's Avatar
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    if its 2k pro keep that
    all you need to do with xp to make it slightly aceptable is install a skind patch and modzilla and the core media player for the codecs delete all the short cuts to IE same for the rest of the stuff no one wants
    the driver suport is horrendous still
    the 64 bit version dont work very well yet as no software works with it
    the wireless stuff aint to bad
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    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Intersting question - I run Win2K (and Linux) and have so far seen no compelling reason to change 2K for XP. As everything is working as I wish, none of the reasons in the previous post (Thank you Paul!) is sufficient for me to consider changing.

    The integrated firewall is a poor substitute for knowing and configuring third party applications or measures

    I don't use IE

    Driver support could be an issue - but so far all peripherals are working under 2K

    Switching isn't that slow in 2K (not enough to warrant splashing out on a new OS)

    My wireless connections are already set up (WPA support could be reason enough, but my Sy assessment doesn't make it mandatory for me)

    Other reasons to upgrade might be if a new release of a can't-do-without application will only run on XP; When Sy upgrades for Win2K cease; I get some 'must-have' hardware that will only operate under XP (When I would have to look long and hard to see if it really is 'must-have')

    Against...

    XP is even more bloated

    I don't particularly like the idea of MS collecting information about my hardware (what esle are they collecting - my browsing habits from the index.dat files - another good reason not to use IE!)

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
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    Ex-MSFT Paul Adams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ifyouknowme
    the driver suport is horrendous still

    Quote Originally Posted by ifyouknowme
    the 64 bit version dont work very well yet as no software works with it
    Strange, both my machines run XP x64 as the primary OS and I have only encountered a handful of apps that don't work (games that have older copy protection methods requiring a 32-bit kernel mode driver).
    There may be a shortage of certain device drivers, but in some of those cases (e.g. printers) there are compatible alternatives.
    Bit of a stretch to say no software works with it, but you do have to ask yourself what you expect from a 64-bit OS (if you expect a performance gain then forget it, but the kernel is based on 2003 SP1 so is more stable than other workstation versions).
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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    I'd have to say without any doubt windows has the best driver support of any OS going.

    Its worth noting XP + later do have some better graphics APIs and also some more security ones. A lot of the virus scanners will use the privlidge tokens to provide better security under XP + later. see the MSDN artical:
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/security/s...re11152004.asp

    for a handy utility which uses this feature.
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  8. #8
    Ex-MSFT Paul Adams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterb
    The integrated firewall is a poor substitute for knowing and configuring third party applications or measures
    I would disagree with this as some (most?) 3rd party apps which have server capabilities would not know the difference between a local and a remote client connection to be able to treat them differently, and also there are server services present in the OS which are not 3rd party.
    In W2K you could filter specific TCP/UDP ports, but this would be from any source so is not as flexible and would need modification every time a new app or game is installed.
    IPSec rules might be a solution, but much trickier to configure.

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb
    I don't use IE
    Fair enough, your principle browser is not IE - but Windows Update uses it, and the HTML rendering engine is part of the OS so should be as up to date as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb
    Driver support could be an issue - but so far all peripherals are working under 2K
    Not quite sure where the driver support comment originated, unless you are using ISA cards or old proprietry hardware I don't think this should be a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb
    I don't particularly like the idea of MS collecting information about my hardware (what esle are they collecting - my browsing habits from the index.dat files - another good reason not to use IE!)
    The information about your hardware is not sent to us, only a weighted hash which is generated from the component hardware.
    How much personal information can be contained in a 25-character string of letters?
    You would be well aware if MS were lifting personal information from your system - every time one of our apps wants to upload any information it prompts you (e.g. Dr Watson reporting a crashed application) and even then it is anonymous and contains no user-identifiable data.
    The details on Windows Product Activation are well documented and can be found with a quick search if you are concerned.
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    The late but legendary peterb - Onward and Upward peterb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Adams
    You would be well aware if MS were lifting personal information from your system - every time one of our apps wants to upload any information it prompts you (e.g. Dr Watson reporting a crashed application) and even then it is anonymous and contains no user-identifiable data.
    The details on Windows Product Activation are well documented and can be found with a quick search if you are concerned.
    Everyone of the applications that MS choses to prompt, prompts! However if the 'Easter Eggs' can be concealed in the O/S or applications, what else is it concealing unbeknown to the users? (Probably nothing - but it is only probably as the source code is not available for examination - and why do those index.dat file store a history of every URL a suser has ever visited - and why can't the user delete them without third party apps?)
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    Ex-MSFT Paul Adams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterb
    Everyone of the applications that MS choses to prompt, prompts! However if the 'Easter Eggs' can be concealed in the O/S or applications, what else is it concealing unbeknown to the users?
    This is true for any application which runs on a system which has Internet connectivity - how do you know for sure that "Widget Thumper 4.5" (I hope to God that is not the name of a real product, I just made it up as an example) is really only doing a "check for updates" and not uploading all of your personal widget data?
    No clue on the INDEX.DAT thing, IE isn't a product I have intimate knowledge of to that extent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Adams
    This is true for any application which runs on a system which has Internet connectivity - how do you know for sure that "Widget Thumper 4.5" is really only doing a "check for updates" and not uploading all of your personal widget data?
    With open source apps you'd be able to check, and alter the program if it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnimus
    I'd have to say without any doubt windows has the best driver support of any OS going.
    Which is not down to Windows itself, but is because most hardware manufacturers support nothing but Windows.

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    Aaaw just get it, its pretty cheap these days, see if you like it or not. Simple.

    Or, why not have a dual boot?

    I personally prefer Windows XP over 2000 as with the latter I got annoying bugs like sound distortion, stuttery video playback on my nForce motherboard...

    I find Windows XP networks a lot painlessly than 2000...

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    Ah, Mrs. Peel! mike_w's Avatar
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    Personally, I have yet to find sufficient motivation to move to XP from 2000. IE7 doesn't really affect me that much since I use Firefox, and it isn't even out yet. Networking works out of the box, and I have all the drivers. I don't really miss any features from XP. I'll only consider moving to XP if there's an application that I REALLY want that'll only run on XP. I'll probably end up skipping XP and getting Vista instead.
    "Well, there was your Uncle Tiberius who died wrapped in cabbage leaves but we assumed that was a freak accident."

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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAdMaN
    With open source apps you'd be able to check, and alter the program if it is.
    your right, using a packet monitor is soo much harder than reading over 100,000+ lines of code that isn't in your prefered style! Heck debuggers will let you know! Do you personally not use a BIOS because you can't have source code + design notes for it? Come on thats stupid.

    As for hardware people not supporting anything but windows, ever written any device interface stuff in linux or BSD? Windows makes it much easyer because of its HAL, also the DDK documentation is really good i find.
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    sorry dupe post.

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    pro: if someone else hops onto your computer a lot the switch user functionality is great.
    cons: I can't think of any tbh. It runs on my 300mhz laptop too. Slowly but no slower than the crusty 98 installation that was on it.

    XP is probably the only good software MS have atm.

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