http://www.ireallydontcare.com/index...ge=fun/firefox
From a mate of mine, and i can't help but agree. yes i know it renders pages "properly" but as most people don't write their sites too it, i can't see why thats a just reason. Its the old my mum dosen't care if her browser is standard complient, its the 3 year last updated website displaying properly that matters.
Its the useual why run firefox debate!
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
The reasons I use Firefox?
- Tabbed browsing
- It works on Windows and Linux, so I can use it regardless of what OS I'm in
- There are a load of useful extensions
- Standards
- I like PNGs
Grandma doesn't care about standards... but I do!
"Well, there was your Uncle Tiberius who died wrapped in cabbage leaves but we assumed that was a freak accident."
StumbleUpon and EbayNegs are good enough reasons to use Firefox, if for nothing else. Pity EbayNegs isn't 1.5 compatible yet.
Last edited by EvilWeevil; 21-12-2005 at 02:12 PM.
hooray!Originally Posted by TheAnimus
here's one for you all to try at home*:
go to a website which may or may not begin with 'asta', and may or may not end with 'lavista.box.sk' using msie. enjoy.
it's very hard trying to have a 'debate' with you because, frankly, i can't quite work out where you're coming from most of the time. one moment you're all for the latest (e.g. c#, .net and managed runtimes) and the next you're demanding we all go back to 1998 (anti-w3c-standards attitude). why don't we all use vb6 instead of c#? after all, everyone knows vb6 so it must be better.
you seem to act like mr. bigshot developer man some of the time, then spit on developers the next moment. have you *ANY* idea just how *UTTERLY UTTERLY PAINFUL* it is trying to write HTML to any standard higher than 13-year-old-with-geocities that renders in MSIE? having to use ****ty hacks to get around the fact that microsoft's PNG library is rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish? msie-only code generally means 'awfuk javascript' which tends to go along with 'hard to navigate, bad websites'. odeon.co.uk is a poster-boy for how great msie is, and the msie mindset - freeze time back in 1998 and pretend almost-HTML4.0
and javascript can cure cancer.
so. why do _I_ run firefox? because i can keep my bookmarks.html synchronised between my multiple machines, running multiple oses - be it SLES, windows or macos, firefox is firefox. epiphany is lighter and faster, konqueror is better at converting ****ed-up msie javascript to something approaching standards compliant, but firefox works for me. tools like the webdev toolbar are just great - i can play with my css and see the results real-time.
so. congratulations on starting another flamewar!
*note: do not try at home, highly likely to **** your box up, needs-a-reformat style - unless like TheAnimus here, you wrote your own rootkits to only allow a list of five and a half different apps to run. remember, msie is just as secure as firefox as long as you run it as a different user, on a completely sandboxed system. not me nor anybody i know is gonna accept resposibility when everything goes to hell
Last edited by directhex; 21-12-2005 at 12:50 AM.
I use opera.
The only safe way to use Internet Explorer is in VMware, I think thats sandbox enough
Type "inherent flaws with internet explorer" in google, you'll get 754,000 results. Replace Internet Explorer with firefox, you'll get 40,000. Whoever wrote that page that OP provided is a lunitic if he thinks IE is in the same league as Firefox.
The only 1 thing I'll give him is Firefox's memory management, it does appear to be leaking a lot, and I'm sure the Firefox developers are trying to contain it. But I'd much rather have leaking memory than overflowed memory and a totally compromised system.
There are some interesting debates as to whether IE is more secure then Firefox. IE vulnerabilities are identifed and given more press coverage but Firefox has had equally substantial holes. The primary difference is that Firefox tends to be fixed faster and the people that use it tend to be more tech savvy and hence are less likely to pick up virii, etc. I'm not defending IE, it has its faults but the security aspects are not as cut and dry as are sometimes made out. Typing a search into google proves nothing as a measurement.
IE's main faults are the ones hexeh pointed out to do with standards compliance. That being said there are good reasons why it's not a simple thing to modify IE such that it supports the W3C standards, a large number of third party applications and internet banking are dependant on the way that IE currently works so backwards compatability is a huge issue that Firefox doesn't really need to worry about.
I agree that google isn't a security benchmark, it was only a quick example. And I'm glad that Microsoft is taking security more seriously these days. But trying to patch up Windows and its bundled software is like trying to patch up the top of a dam that was nearly shaken apart with an earthquake using plasters while water pisses out of the base of the structure..
In my opinion Microsoft needs to work from the ground up with software engineering in mind, not patch by marketting goals.
Secunia is the best place to go to look at how many vulnerabilities a program has:
IE - 21 out of 91 unpatched (23%), one of which is rated highly critical, with a partially patched vulnerability rated as highly critical being over a year old.
Firefox - 3 out of 26 unpatched (11.5%), all of which are rated at or below less critical, and a partially patched vulnerability rated as moderately critical.
Opera - 1 out of 13 unpatched (7.7%), rated not critical.
Oh, yes you are. I really cant see any other explanation.I recently had to format my computer, which is when I stopped using Firefox. However, as a trial to make sure it wasn't something to do with my config, I installed Firefox on my clean system. It took over 30 seconds to load up and become browsable. I am not running a crap computer here, what the hell is going on?.
Firefox comes under alot more scrutiny that IE, becase everyone says it better. I'm sure if you wanted to someone could do a page about IE just as long.
Thats the point, people like directhex have done it again and ignored the primary point of rob's ramblings.
Firefox is safer? Bollocks is it, IE hasn't had a flaw were by one can give a URL which is actaully a command line!
Most of the security "issues" in MSIE can be solved so incredibly simply. Disable Active Scripting. Firefox dosen't have active-x support (enless you have that 3rd party addon) take that 3rd party addon, goto asta (thou why it wouldn't be astakiller is beyound me) and you will get exactly the same treatment. Heck a LECTURER i know who uses FF and runs everything as administrator (he is an EE lecturer, so complex things like permissions confuse him) and he got something from a questionable moral value site via that url bug.
How the **** can you call that safer?!
Its like saying your ford feista is safer than my bugatti, no its not, i can drive my bugatti slowly i can only use 70 of its bhp and its just as safe. But at the same time i've 930 bhp left to unleash!
If you look at firefox vrs MSIE with active scripting etc turned off, which is safer, which takes less memory? (leaks are bad, leaks mean bad programmers, bad programmers tend to make security issues).
Now standards are a hudge issue, but no offense if you think that having to write a site to display in firefox, MSIE, pocket opera, pocket IE, ultra pocket IE, and mabye lynx too, with disability support, is the hardest part of a modern programmers life then piss off! Most web developers anoy me because yes, often your artists, and can make things of beauty and other creative things i cannot. But damnit when was the last time one of you drew up an attack tree? What i mean is you can't say EVERYONE USE FF, IT WILL MAKE MY LIFE EASYER. I'd be damn jelous if you could! I've had to take out 10,000 lines of code that should of been their imo (security wrapper and permission iscolation around plugins) because of people wanting to run this code on something arcan like a PII-266! Saying oh don't use IE, its a pain for me to write too, is akin to me saying they should all go out and buy 1ghz+ machines.
I'm just getting fed up because of the bad advocacy.
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
why does software have required windows versions? why doesn't it all run on windows 95? aren't the developers saying 'you have to use such&such version' in exactly the same way?
Methinks someone was watching the repeat of Top Gear last night.
lies. http://www.auditmypc.com/cmdexe.asp
No!
That requires active scripting to be enabled! Hence not lies because i stated try compairing FF vrs MSIE in the same functionality state.
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
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