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Thread: Help with Access

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    Help with Access

    Ok might not be strictly Programming.
    I need some help with Access, im not to good with it and need a kick in the right direction with this problem.
    --------------------------------------------
    I need to create a sort of product quote calculator thing.
    What i need is a form to display for example 8 items, each one with a price.
    I would like to make each one selectable with either a tick box or something to have it included or not.
    Once selected id like it then to allow for an amount to be added, which would then multiply the price by quantity and display it in a total.
    --------------------------------------------
    Thats the basic part im having trouble with, im sure its dead easy and im being a complete idiot..

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    Goat Boy
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    How far have you got?
    "All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks

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    Senior Member Shad's Avatar
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    No reason you should be doing it in Access by the sounds of it, a simple VB app will do the job (or indeed a host of other solutions). In fact you could script it in a WSF file if you really wanted a cheap crude version

    It's important to choose the right environment for the job though; Access is a database utility *cough* load-a-bollocks *cough* so you really only want to use it to store data in.
    Simon


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    Goat Boy
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    Access isn't too bad for rapid prototying. But yeah, other than that it is rubbish.
    "All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks

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    I have got far, i really need this as its the core part.
    Im doing this in Access as its too much for Excell. It will need extra bits adding in, generate different reports. So the whole project will not just been what is above, everything just will require it

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    Goat Boy
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    If you dont explain what you have/have not done, how can we help?
    "All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks

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    Shad and Debeeeenster - snobs! Why is it rubbish? And don't trot out the usual crap, give me some serious reasons. The fact that it isn't, in it's normal form, client/server doesn't count.

    We don't all want, or need to run the planet so why is Access no good? Is it no good for anything, or just no good for running the planet? Do you even understand that Access is not the database?

    I've seen plenty of drippy sneery comments about Access on these forums, so lets have some real answers.

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    Senior Member Shad's Avatar
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    Ok, fair enough that Access is just a front end. But Enterprise Manager is a much better front end; if it worked with Access (maybe it does?) I'd be a happier man. What other front ends are available for Jet?

    The biggest limitations with Access (i.e. the whole shebang) are the lack of support for stored procedures, sub-queries (especially those containing multiple joins etc.), and concurrent connections.

    Both Beeny and I are professional developers lets not forget. The applications that we work with require features that Access cannot provide. Access is suitable in my opinion only to small scale applications on a desktop, single user system. If your requirements fit within the remit of what Access can do, then fine! But certainly in my own experience of using Access and other RDBMS', it's too limited.

    Thus, it's rubbish
    Simon


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    Using that logic, I am a professional racing driver and a 2 litre family saloon cannot do the things that I want it to do therefore it's rubbish.

    Access is no good for you and for the things you require to do, that doesn't give you the right to trash all the other family saloon cars.

    And you still haven't given a general purpose reason or reasons why Access is no good.

    Oh, and Access, though limited in user numbers is well capable of large work with a number of users. I have done it for years on large Construction contracts (£100m plus) - I just wouldn't use it on an enterprise basis. That's not my opinion, that's fact.
    Last edited by Alan; 30-12-2003 at 03:19 PM.

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    Goat Boy
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    Originally posted by Alan
    Shad and Debeeeenster - snobs! Why is it rubbish? And don't trot out the usual crap, give me some serious reasons. The fact that it isn't, in it's normal form, client/server doesn't count.

    We don't all want, or need to run the planet so why is Access no good? Is it no good for anything, or just no good for running the planet? Do you even understand that Access is not the database?

    I've seen plenty of drippy sneery comments about Access on these forums, so lets have some real answers.
    OK well, firstly the fact that it is not client/server is a serious drawback, but you've already mentioned that.

    When you are working as a professional developer on a project with Access and it starts "dropping" records from a query running against some "large" tables (about 100,000 records) I think you can safely say that it is not a serious product. I have had this happen to me, and it has made me look stupid on a professional level, so I dont like access. It's not snobbery, it's just trying to keep your job!

    As I said, for certain things (prototyping and as a learning aid being the only two I can think of) it has a place, but as a serious piece of software it has no place whatsoever.

    I have worked professionally as a developer for over 7 years. I dont know anyone that would implement a solution in Access for a project worth 10 grand, let alone 100M. That is just asking for trouble.

    It's not a case of snobbery, it's a case of professionalism.
    "All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks

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    cat /dev/null streetster's Avatar
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    something like that?

    mark

    (thought i should try to bring this thread back on topic...)

    edit: hah didnt realise this thread was almost a month old stupid me.

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    Dabeeenster, you have very clearly explained why Access is no good for you but the people to whom you were rubbishing Access are not high level professional developers. Horses for courses! I've already used the car analogy. You might want serious kit to win a race, but the other guys simply want to get their families from A to B!

    To turn round and blanket rubbish another system 'cos it doesn't suit your needs is well O.T.T. And your comment about £10k project never mind £100 million is simply senseless.

    It was used, it did the job required (i.e. more and better than the other procedures available to the company at that time) it has been used on dozens of other jobs £35m, plus), and it is worth something.

    Sure, a proper SQL backend and a "proper" front end with proper business rules, - the works, would have done exactly the same job, with potential future expansion and benefits - but at what cost and what timeline! Thousands of pounds in licenses, thousands of pounds in development costs, months and months of waiting for it, then find out that the developers are ace programmers but know rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish about surveying and the construction industry (and that has happened with BIG software developer companies).

    Would it pain you so much to admit that Access - and equivalents - have their place in the scheme of things?

    Forget about the world you inhabit, most of us aren't there anyway. I can almost here you say "I'm one of the big boys, I don't play with toys!"

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    cat /dev/null streetster's Avatar
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    who cares! this thread was started to help Darkmatter with an access problem, not to talk about the downfalls of access as a multi-million program development tool...

    mark

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    Goat Boy
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    Access does have a place, as I stated.

    It does not have a place as a RDBMS for large high cost projects. It is NOT designed for such an environment. The user/security model is almost entirely missing and the scalability is almost non-existant.

    If you are happy with the prospect of Access "losing" data when you start using it in earnest then go ahead and use it. SQL Server costs about 3.5 grand. That's not much of an impact on a 100M budget. MySQL is free and IMHO more stable and reliable than access.

    Its got nothing to do with snobbery. It's just a matter of using the right tool for the right job. Access is fine for small personal databases and for learning about SQL/RDBMS's in general. It is not fine for running anything business critical.

    Just as an example. Access provides no support for replication or failover. Are you happy using that in a 35M project? What if one of your machines loses a hard disk?

    Access is fine for running business critical systems up until you run into one of its failings. That's when you are stuck, and that's when you need something more reliable.

    I'm not saying access is a bad product, just that it is often misused. .
    "All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks

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    OK. I take your point. It is useful for somethings but your objections for mission critical stuff are all spot on. I never said the work it did in my example was mission critical. It saved time and the adaptability of reporting was a great boon. It saved us from having 100s of spreadsheets and thousands of Word documents.

    I was aware of its lack of roll back and failover but the back end was on a Server naturally so faulty disks weren't an issue (RAID 5 with hot swap) and the critical part of the document control system wrote the exact same data to a backup database which was unused for anything else.

    But we'll let it drop there. I think I've made my point and you have yours

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