Remember kids, if you're going Linux, use an nVidia GPU (and don't buy from OCuk)

[aidanjt]

I thought I'd share my recent experiences with ATi on linux and trying to replace it with my supplier, this should give some of you a giggle at my expense:

Hi there, I ordered the Sapphire ATI Radeon X1950 Pro 512MB GDDR3 TV-Out/Dual DVI (AGP) - Retail card on the 20th December using my Father's creditcard, I received it, and the card itself works great in Windows, however the ATi binary drivers for Linux are a complete mess, and I'm wondering if it would be possible to send it back and get an nVidia 7800GS in it's place, probably a Gainward BLISS GeForce 7800 GS SILENT 512MB GDDR3 TV-Out/Dual DVI (AGP) - Retail. Since I spend most of my time working with Linux, having a card with good driver support would be a major plus since I'm using my anciant 9600XT atm, the x1950pro is litterly a £170 paperweight for me. An extra 30 or 40 quid is well worth it. Look forward to hearing back from you.

We cannot accept non faulty goods back if they have ben used Sir. As our terms and conditions state, we are not responsible for software compatibility.

Try a google search for omega drivers.

What the hell do omega drivers have to do with fglrx?

Very well, I'm changing my rhetorical question to that of a formal notification of cancellation. Your Terms and Conditions (T&C) make no mention of acceptance of used goods, nor software compatibility, however, I had made reasonable compatibility checks with the chipset vendor (ATi) which officially supports (albeit poorly) Linux 2.6.18 and X.org 7.1 with the fglrx 8.33.6 driver on all x1000 series cards prior to making the order. Even if this were not the case T&Cs may not infringe statutory rights, in that products sold must perform as advertised, as the Sapphire ATI Radeon X1950 Pro 512MB GDDR3 TV-Out/Dual DVI (AGP) - Retail page states OpenGL support and no platform dependence, you are legally obliged to take the card back.

However, going back to reasonableness, I don't want a refund, I simply wish to return the undamaged (and barely used) card with all it's contents and packaging and obtain a card which is guaranteed to operate correctly with current Linux and X.org and pay the restocking fee & price difference without having to battle for customer satisfaction.

Given the number of suppliers to choose from, your company should be pleased that I ordered with you and not a competitor, and go out of your way to ensure I'm happy with my order in a professional manor, not reply to me with fallacious fob offs when I have a problem. If this is how you treat all your customers with problems, perhaps my recommendations to friends and family were ill placed, and I should look elsewhere when building computers for people, and myself in the future.

Please see my last reply and our terms and conditions Sir.

I did read your reply (however I'm wondering if you read mine), and your terms and conditions, and as I said in my previous message your terms and conditions make no mention of return of used goods or software compatibility, and that even if they did, the terms would not be a legally binding contract since them terms would infringe on statutory law. Now I don't want to have to go through the credit card company to resolve this issue, however I will if I have to, and I'll do my business elsewhere. £170 for something that doesn't work as expected is too much to be ignored.

That company has turned into pure gutter trash, not only are they breaking the law by lying about my legal rights, but refusing them when I assert my rights.

So there ya have it folks, if you want a hassle free Linux installation, buy an nVidia card, and don't buy from overclockers, they're great when orders go fine, when you have a problem that's another matter entirely.

I suppose I should have seen this coming and avoid them and ATi in the first place, though that x1950pro was too attractive to refuse

[tickedon]

I'm not exactly sure you're in the right here tbh.

There is *no* automatic right to a refund in the UK, it's always something the company has to pro-actively offer under whatever terms *they* state. The exceptions being:
a) Distant Selling Regulations. For unused, unopened goods, 7 working days in which you can reject the goods for a full refund
b) Where a product was mis-sold/mis-described (e.g. '2 DVI ports' and you get 1 DSUB & 1 DVI).

Unless it specifically said the card would run under Linux, then, you don't really have a case. Additionally, the card will run under linux - simply not with the performance/drivers etc... you want. You really are facing an uphill struggle, and doing a chargeback would likely just result in OCUK sending round the debt collector boys.

I would however be glad for you to point me to the statutory law where you think it gives you the right to a refund. I'm happy to admit I'm wrong when I'm wrong

[aidanjt]

If it didn't run in Windows the same non-advertisement issue would still exist and the card would be worthless, a GPU is a 3D accellerator product that's ment to render 3D images on a computer, if it doesn't do that job then it's not performing it's intended purpose. In my case 3D acceleration under linux doesn't work despite official vendor support.

[chrestomanci]

There is *no* automatic right to a refund in the UK, it's always something the company has to pro-actively offer under whatever terms *they* state. The exceptions being:
a) Distant Selling Regulations. For unused, unopened goods, 7 working days in which you can reject the goods for a full refund

Distance selling regulations are the only way you will get your money back, but I think tickedon might be wrong. My understanding is that you are allowed to open and use the goods a bit, enough to decide that they are not suitable. If I where you I would do some research on exactly what you are entitled to.

Having said that, given OcUk's reputation, you will have trouble enforcing even your rights under those regulations, I would get ready so sue them, to get anything out of them.

BTW, for even better Linux compatibility, I would go for a system based on the Intel 865G chipset, as that has open source Linux drivers. Also I would not spec such a high end card for a general purpose linux system.

[aidanjt]

I need it for beryl as well as the odd windows gaming, I'm happy enough using nVidia's binary drivers for beryl and other OpenGL apps. Right now I'm using my very old 9600XT which mostly works with the r300 driver, it has problems some mild problems with overlay manipulation, nothing terminal mind you.

Anyway, it looks like I'm probably going to need to go through the credit card company to get the money back.

I can get them under the Sales of Goods act, and probably Distance Selling regs as well.

I honestly don't understand the mentality of this company, it's almost as if they don't want repeated business.

[spazman]

Getting even the most basic of OpenGL stuff working on my shuttle with Ubuntu was a nightmare. If it wasnt for a step by step guide id have been lost. I'm a total linux noob so when i saw the guide to get XGL running on ATi i didnt even bother. As for overclockers what can i say i was burned to the price of £300 i'll never ever use them ever again, they are theives and liars stay well away.

[aidanjt]

@spazman: nVidia cards don't need Xgl anymore, just compiz or beryl. One or the other are supported by Ubuntu now from what I hear. And if you need help with getting direct rendering running with the binary drivers in the future, drop me a msg.

[spazman]

Cheers for the offer i only wanted to play scorch 3d anyway, my shuttle pretty much just servers as a media player at the moment so not to bothered with spanky graphics. Besides since my 9600xt died it runninga 64mg 8500 which is ages old and only DX8. I have another machine for the spanky graphics

[CrazyMonkey]

Im sorry to hear about your problems, and myself knowing that the x1950pro is such a great card.

It is supposed to have Linux support, i wouldnt know about any law stuff but i do hope you get your money back. If not phone them lots of times and annoy them, ive heard that works.

[aidanjt]

Yeah, that's the worst thing about it, I know the x1950pro is a wonderful card, just the drivers are pants :/

I could be waiting months for a fix to make its way into the monthly releases (assuming the problem is ever fixed), no way am I waiting around while the card gathers dust.

[TheAnimus]

I had a problem with a seller and VISA advised me that under THEIR terms, which all merchants who wish to vend with visa must comply too and perhaps also the distance selling regs.

You can send something back upto 14 days later via distance selling. If you think the colour is different to the one in the picture, or the smell isn't what you wanted. As long as you supply the product in good condition, i think also a re-stocking fee can be charged (10% iirc).

Talk to visa! It might be different for electronic goods now.

But seriously, everyone here knows ocUK aren't good for customer service!

[aidanjt]

Oh I was well aware of OCuk's customer service (or lack thereof) before buying, but I didn't anticipate fglrx to fall flat on it's face with the card :/

[undergroove]

Sadly aidanjt, a recent experience with said retailer confirms exactly the same with me, that their aftersales care completely sucks.

Had a problem with an X1900XT that was DOA. The fact their were burn marks on the back of the card and (when tested by them) it wouldn't do 3D at all were a good indicator the card was gooshed.

Took about 3 weeks of healthy discussion with them to get the card returned and a refund, during which time they said my PSU wasn't compatible (Seasonic S12-600), that my motherboard may be faulty (A8N-SLI Premium) and that my PSU was likely faulty and had killed the card among other things....

Solution for them was to ingore the problem and suggest I buy a new PSU from them (no need, mine wasn't bust) and at the end of it all I had to escalate things past the numpties that answered support tickets and speak to someone who wasn't a condescending and sarcastic git.

At the end of it I got my refund, which took more arguing and aggro then I've ever encountered anywhere else in my life.

In contrast, a couple of years ago I had an issue with something I bought from Scan and had a couple of hoops (initially) to jump through to sort an exchange (mislabeled item when it was warehoused, so wrong one received in box). The follow up to sort the problem out was both painless and hassle free and after posting about my experience in Hexus boards somewhere, a rep from Scan got in touch to ask for further detail and came back to say that the problem I'd reported had been resolved, as well as several internal warehousing procedures being tidied up to prevent the problem happening again for anyone else.

[ikonia]

with respect,

You did buy this card knowing the status of the ati drivers and how most people in the whole community have problems and slate the drivers ?

If you spend most of your time in Linux would it not have been wiser to pick a tried and tested card. While I am not impressed with OCuk at all, do you not think its harsh to punish a retailer who sold you the card in good faith, made no advertisment of its Linux support, yet because of this you feel it appropriate to return it to them ?

It makes you wonder if e-tailers, and to some extent re-tailers are getting more agressive and deffensive on things like returns and refunds if this is the way their customers do business (thats not pointing a finger at aidantj this situation just highlights it). Faults yes, miss-sale - yes no issue, but taking a known "dodgy supported" card/product then being shocked when it does't work and making the reatailer cop the bill for this (not sure how much this actually effects them) seems a bit harsh.

[CrazyMonkey]

If OcUk are still being a b!tch about it, just sell the card here, or on Ebay. Ive seen alot of them going on Ebay for what they retail for.

Id try what TheAnimus said and get in touch with VISA.

[dangel]

OcUK are only interested in taking (and keeping) your money. Anything post-sales is basically ignored - there's no profit in it for them..
Rubbish company.