Power Racks

[Rave]

I've decided that I want to do the Stronglifts 5x5 for a few months at least. I can't remember who here suggested it originally though I did thank their post at the time. I've always been quite muscular, I seem to be lucky in that I respond well to any training, but I'd like to be properly strong at least once in my life. I just turned 30 and already have a few grey hairs, so now is the time. Today I went down the gym that I've been a member of for the last two years but rarely bothered to attend, to start off on the new regime.

What a disappointment. What I initially thought was a squat rack turned out to be a bloody Smith machine, and there was a total of one Olympic bar, on the bench, with a big queue to use it. Did my first workout O.K, though I ended up benching 40kg for 5x5 through my own inability to add up. Stuggled with the final set so I guess that's my current '5x5 max' as a starting point for comparison.

Anyway our joint membership costs £46 a month, and the wife never goes either. So I'm thinking of cancelling and then 'home-schooling' it in my mum's garage with a power rack. There's already a cheap bench in there, good for 100kg, and chatting to my brother who's also an on-and-off gym attendee, it turns out he already has a cheap olympic bar and about 30kg of weights. He's also keen on the idea of a proper home gym, as he's paying £45 a month for his solo membership of another (albeit better equipped) gym. He's offered to contribute, though being a homeowner he's a lot less well off than me.

So anyway I was thinking of one of these.

http://www.powerhouse-fitness.co.uk/...power-rack.php

Max weight 180kg. I'm 5'11 and currently 80kg; I'm thinking that a 2x bodyweight squat/bench is probably as far as I want to take it, and I daresay I'll end up a bit heavier than I am now to achieve that, maybe 90-95kg. Is it worth spending more for a sturdier rack? Anyone know a cheaper/better rack for the same sort of money? Thing is, little Bro is much bigger than me, 6'1 and already about 17-18 stone, so maybe 110kg (at least that's what he was when he went in for knee surgery two or three years ago). Doing the same workout he ought to end up stronger than me, though at the moment I can generally beat him in an arm wrestle- shorter arms I guess.

My brother thinks that iron weights should come out at about £1/kilo, but the above supplier seems to want roughly double that. The Stronglifts regime requires a weight increase of 2.5kg per workout so I'll need at least 2 of 1.25kg, 2.5kg, 5kg and 10kg to get started, with a few 20kg plates if I really take it further.

Advice from any old school pumpers of iron greatly appreciated.

Edit: details about my brother.

[0iD]

Check out your local Tesco Superstore for cheap cast iron weights & bars. Nothing stellar, by my local one does plates upto 20kg @ aprox £1/kg. Also, try a Powerbar, handy for any convenient doorway round the house, (plus it doubles as a handy rail for hanging shirts whilst you're doing the ironing) And for that alternate to std weights, try Kettle Bells, very versatile and make a change from the usual hand weight exercises (downside is their expense).

[JPreston]

Yes yes yes! A power rack is an excellent idea, I've had a similar one for a few years. I've still gone to the gym when the fancy takes me (I have a choice of two excellent ones locally for £25/month with no contract or minimum term etc) but really only to give my training a boost when I have the time and inclination.

For olympic weights, £1 per kilo is a good price to aim for, but we used to say this 10 years ago so I'm not sure how current that is. You might need a sturdier bench if your one is ultra cheap but you will get a sense of that from using it. I bought my stuff from www.fitness-superstore.co.uk, or rather I went to their showroom which was local to me (they have more showrooms now) and drove away with a discounted ex-display power rack, 300kg and a 7' bar (think it was a 260kg set but I bought two extra 20s), a cheap but decent bench (~£70), for ~£500 all in. The rack you link to is sturdy enough, in fact I wonder whether 180kg is really the max it can take because mine came with no specified limit and I've put significantly more than that on it, with no deformation of the frame resulting. I certainly wouldn't look at more heavy-duty ones as they are aimed at commercial applications and so ridiculously expensive. My 'home' frame has held up very well indeed.

Make sure the one you buy has facility to add a lat-pulldown attachment, because then you really do have a full gym replacement. I don't have that attachment myself, but I reckon it's well worth the extra. I was very impressed with the staff and range at the company I bought from, and obviously having the opportunity to buy in person means you can save by getting ex-display or blagging a discount. It's also worth having extra 20s, so you don't have to use about 10 increasingly tiny plates on each side to get up to your weight. Of course, you can always buy more as and when you want (someone here got a load second hand for next-to-nothing recently).

When I think back to when I was 30 and 5'10'' (last year ) it was easy getting to 105kg lean(ish) weight and pressing 160kg in about six months of training (albeit at the gym) after being pretty inactive for a long while, so you're not over the hill just yet.

[SiM]

It was probably me who suggested the stronglifts 5x5.

Its great that you decided to train at home. It is much better than at the crowded gym that doesn't have the equipment you need.

I have been planning to quit the gym too, and train at home. I just need to find the space to set up the power rack that I just bought (Bodycraft F430 - sitting here in the box ).

I have read that the Bodymax rack you linked to is quite poor quality (hollow tubing). It might say it can do 180kg, but this measurement is for static weight. So if you are moving when you need the spotter bars, it might not hold... I was actually planning to buy that same one before I read this.

Regarding the bench, one which is rated to 100kg is crap. This includes your bodyweight lol. So if you weigh 80kg, then the max weight you can lift on it without going past its rating is 20kg. I have a Ironmaster Super Bench (rated to 1000lbs = ~ 450kg)

Regarding the weights. Get olympic sized weights/bars. As you are pretty strong, you will grow out the standard ones. Olympic has other advantages too. Look on google

I figured that I would save many times the value by training at home (because my brother can cancel his membership too), so it was worth forking out a bit more for good quality equipment. If I wanted to spend less I would have got this rack (£255) with the dip bar (£21). Not sure which bench I would have gone for if I didn't want to spend £200 on the super bench (which is awesome).

For the weights. Look on ebay. eg this

I disagree with JPreston regarding the lat pulldown. You can do many superior exercises with just the bar, so you do not need that attachment.

(Also remember to use the discount code summer09 at powerhouse)

[JPreston]

How do you mean, hollow tubing? Does your one have solid uprights - must weigh (and hold!) a ton! Or is it just the lift-offs, safety bars, chin-up bar which are solid?

Yeah, the lat attachment is ~£170, and at that price I left it myself but since then figured that it would be handy. I don't really like chin-ups etc, but then I'm comparing to the lat-pulldown machines in the gym which will likely be a lot smoother and more solid than the affordable home versions.

[SeriousSam]

Personally I believe that you are better off finding a gym with a good selection of free weights and equipment if you seriously want to get "strong". The main reason for this is that you have to become "totally" strong, i.e. train every bodypart and balance out the opposing muscles. Unless you are willing to spend a fair amount of cash and have plent of room for equipment, this is hard to do at home. Thats not to say it isn't possible, but a darn sight harder than at a gym.

In my early thirties when I used to train heavy I used to bench 180Kg, which believe me is a serious amount of weight. I was only one of two people in the gym, who wasn't a strongman or powerlifter, that could lift that amount. At the time I was 98Kg, not carrying that much fat and being 5'8 was built like a tank... so at 5'11 you would probably be up at 110-115Kg to lift that amount (longer arms means you need more musclemass to do the same job). So you would have to consider whether you want to get that big, as clothes become a bit of a problem. For example I couldn't buy long sleeve shirts that weren't tailored as I had a 19" neck.

As an initial goal I'd suggest that you aim for lifting 1x bodyweight and then take it from there. Real strength takes a long time to accrue (years) as you have to train and strengthen your tendons etc. as well so that they can take the strain. There is also the fact that your body has its own natural limit anyway, so you will have to see how it goes. I had to quit serious training as I got too big for my own frame, which resulted in me compressing and impinging the supraspinatus tendon in my shoulder.

One book I'd recommend is the "bible of bodybuilding", The Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding by Big Arn himself. It goes through every bodypart and lists the main exercise for training each of them. I found it extrememly useful when I started out, as it helps you to visualise all of the exercises that you need to do. It also has a list of workout schedules but I found that adapting my routine to suit myself more useful.

Finally to start you are better off doing less sets on more exercises for each bodypart to help strengthen it completely. As an example for chest you could do flat and incline press plus pullovers in order to work all of the muscles there. Once you have a good foundation you can then increase the sets per exercise.

[SiM]

While I respect that you are stronger and experienced than me, I think that some of your points are wrong.

Personally I believe that you are better off finding a gym with a good selection of free weights and equipment if you seriously want to get "strong". The main reason for this is that you have to become "totally" strong, i.e. train every bodypart and balance out the opposing muscles. Unless you are willing to spend a fair amount of cash and have plent of room for equipment, this is hard to do at home. Thats not to say it isn't possible, but a darn sight harder than at a gym.

Nope. You can train all your body parts with a few compound exercises. You do not need all this fancy equipment/isolation exercises, in fact just a bar and weight would be fine (but awkward) to exercise the full body (squats - there is a technique to get heavy weights off the floor without a rack... can't remember what it is called though, floor press/press ups, variations of barbell rows, overhead press, all varieties of cleans/snatches).

Finally to start you are better off doing less sets on more exercises for each bodypart to help strengthen it completely. As an example for chest you could do flat and incline press plus pullovers in order to work all of the muscles there. Once you have a good foundation you can then increase the sets per exercise.

Were you a natural trainer? or "enhanced"? This tends to be what is effective for people on steroids... There is no real need for doing so many different isolation exercises if you are a natural trainer, unless you train 5+ times a week.

How do you mean, hollow tubing? Does your one have solid uprights - must weigh (and hold!) a ton! Or is it just the lift-offs, safety bars, chin-up bar which are solid?

I am not sure what mine has, it is still in the box, but it weighs 90kg.

I am not exactly sure what was hollow, I read on a forum somewhere had gone to the shop to see one of these and it looked like it had weak spots.

Yeah, the lat attachment is ~£170, and at that price I left it myself but since then figured that it would be handy. I don't really like chin-ups etc, but then I'm comparing to the lat-pulldown machines in the gym which will likely be a lot smoother and more solid than the affordable home versions.

Weighted chin ups are a great exercise. One of the most important imo. Lat pulldown is not the same.

[SeriousSam]

SiM I don't disagree about being able to train all your bodyparts with a few compound exercises, but there is a limit to how far that will take you. Just doing flat bench for chest for example will only train the main section of the muscle to its full potential, leaving your upper pectorals and serratus weaker. My point was more about if you want to get really strong, as to do that you have to train everything or you run a serious risk of injuries (big weights need a lot of control to handle and the more allround strength you have the easier it becomes), or problems with tendons (shoulders being the key example as if your rear delts are weak compared to front then you can have issues with your tendons being pulled out of their proper alignment). Plus from a vanity point of view it gives you a more balanced shape

If you just want to be generally strong then I agree, you don't have to go the whole hog as it were with lots of different exercises for each muscle group. Plus as you said you can do specific variations with a bar to work multiple muscle groups, which I should have mentioned before as working muscle groups in combination is very good as well. The one you were thinking of (lifting the bar from the floor) was either a "dead lift" which works the core muscles of the lower back (plus your legs to a lesser extent) or a clean & jerk if you lift from floor to shoulders then press above head.

The only supplement I ever took was Creatine and even that I only took in amounts considerably lower than suggested. Admittedly I could just look at the stuff and gain 7-10pounds as I'm one of the lucky ones that could use it effectively. I'm also lucky in that I grow musclemass and strength even with minimal effort, and assumning that Rave is similar by his comments then less sets but strictly and more exercises can be very effective. I don't suggest he goes as far as I used to as I trained a lot over many years to get to where I got (see below) but if he has the time then multiple exercises will be of benefit. Its all a matter of how strong he wants to get and how long he wants to spend at it... slow gains over a long period being better than quick ones.

At peak the core of my training schedule was as follows;

Sunday: Alternate weeks of heavy cardio or legs
- Squats (x5 sets inverse pyramid up to medium weight), Leg press (x5 sets IP heavy), Leg extensions (x3 sets strict medium weight), Leg curls (x3 sets strict medium weight), Seated calf lifts (x3 sets medium weight), Ad and Abductors (x3 sets very strict low to medium weight)

Monday: Chest and Biceps
- Flat bench (x5 sets Heavy IP), Incline bench (x5 sets Heavy IP), Flat flys (x3 sets medium and strict), Incline flys (x3 sets medium and strict), Pullowers (x5 sets medium and strict)
- Bicep curls on cable (x5 sets Heavy IP), Reverse curls on cable (x3 sets strict low weight), Wide grip curls on seated machine (x5 sets medium and strict), Sampson curls on overhead cables (x5 sets strict low to medium)

Wednesday: Shoulders, Forearms (the forgotten muscles) and Abs
- Shoulder press with dumbells (x5 sets Medium IP), Shoulder press on smith (x5 sets Heavy IP), Lateral raises (x3 sets low weight strict), Front raises (x3 sets low weight strict), Rear raises or cable flys(x5 IP low to medium and strict), Upright rows (x5 sets Medium IP), Shrugs (x5 sets Heavy IP)
- Behind the back (x5 sets Heavy IP), Seated reverse (x5 sets Medium IP), Dumbell twists (x3 sets low weight and strict)
- A mixture of hanging leg raises, nautilis crunches, twists, cable bends, gravity crunches etc. Ironically back then I couldn't even get the beginings of a six-pack no matter what I tried , but now after a layoff and being several years older I'm starting to get one

Friday: Back and Triceps
- Widegrip pulldowns front* (x5 sets Heavy IP), Narrowgrip pulldowns (x5 sets Medium to Heavy IP), Seated rows narrow (x5 sets Heavy IP), Seated rows wide (x5 sets Medium to Heavy IP), Deadlift (x5 sets Heavy IP) or "good mornings" (x5 sets Low to medium IP)
- Cable pressdowns narrow (x5 sets Heavy IP), Overhead extensions dumbell (x5 sets Medium to Heavy IP), Single reverse pulldowns wide (x3 sets low and strict), Cable pulldowns split rope (x3 sets low and strict), Dips (x5 sets slow and strict)

In amongst all that I'd switch in thing like clean and jerks etc. that work multiple muscles and improve core strength and control. A bit of a change now and again helps you to avoid getting stuck in a rut where you just do the same thing all the time and don't get any further gains.

Now I could do that without being on steroids or having problems with running out of energy, but I will admit it took me about 5years to get to the point where I could train that way and then another 3years to start being able to bench 180Kg for example. That level of training does have its pro's and con's... you have to have a very good diet (eat a little and often in a glycemic fashion), its not a good idea to just stop training completely so you have to gradually downscale your training and food consumption but if you do stop for a year or two (as I did due to work and having had enough after 13years week in week out) as long as you remain active getting back into it is a darn sight easier than when you first started.

*You will see people doing them behind the neck but unless you do them exactly right you can cause rotator cuff problems (something I found out the hard way at the start)

[JPreston]

SiM I don't disagree about being able to train all your bodyparts with a few compound exercises, but there is a limit to how far that will take you. Just doing flat bench for chest for example will only train the main section of the muscle to its full potential, leaving your upper pectorals and serratus weaker. My point was more about if you want to get really strong, as to do that you have to train everything or you run a serious risk of injuries (big weights need a lot of control to handle and the more allround strength you have the easier it becomes), or problems with tendons (shoulders being the key example as if your rear delts are weak compared to front then you can have issues with your tendons being pulled out of their proper alignment). Plus from a vanity point of view it gives you a more balanced shape

SeriousSam. He's chuffing serious

I agree absolutely with the sentiment that one does need to isolation exercises, utilising a far greater range of equipment than is practical to have at home for best results. A fancy online programme and clever use of minimal equipment (having had a look at that site, it's sensible enough and I'll be picking up the upside-down press-ups myself) is not a substitute for the motivation that comes from training regularly with your buddies, the knowledge and experience of fellow trainers, and a full rack of fifty or more dumbells (I will dumbbell row with 70kg, that may exercise the same muscles on paper as something in that programme but it's not the same as anything I can do alone in my garage). Peripheral exercises that only become possible with a full range of equipment are necessary to ward off injuries when you are serious about the weight you want to move and even the act of lugging dumbbells on and off the racks, across the gym to your bench etc is valuable exercise for stabilising your tendons and joints.

Like I said, I am lucky enough to be able to go to a couple of old-school Rocky gyms by paying £25 for the next month on and off as and when I please, and training with my buddies that I have known since school, are extremely knowledgeable and one of which is a competitive bodybuilder at national level. A home set-up can never fully replace all that. But if I only had the option of just trudging along to my local Fitness First, I could get better results in my garage. Since Rave and his brother are spending ~£100 a month on membership at gyms that aren't really hitting the spot, a home set-up is an excellent idea that will pay-back the cash investment in no time and last forever, without even mentioning the considerable training advantages it will yield over a rubbishy gym

[YorkieBen]

anyone recommending bicep curls for strength are plain wrong. For getting big, yes, for big arms to flex in the pub fine. But for strength pointless imo

Squat, deadlift, bench, overhead press, power cleans, snatches etc are the way to go imo for functional, explosive strength. This is what I have been told by multiple athletes.

[SammEl]

anyone recommending bicep curls for strength are plain wrong. For getting big, yes, for big arms to flex in the pub fine. But for strength pointless imo

Squat, deadlift, bench, overhead press, power cleans, snatches etc are the way to go imo for functional, explosive strength. This is what I have been told by multiple athletes.

Hmm.

If you want EVERY muscle in your body to become strong more than big, then doing low reps on each muscle is the way to do (except abs?). I know of many arm wrestlers who just train like bodybuilders (12 reps) and they do pretty damn fine.

The only thing I don't know is if you can mix reps around i.e. 12 reps for biceps so they gain mass, 5 reps for your other muscles to gain strength.

Possible?

[shaneyp]

Firstly there are many types of strength the 2 main being static strength and explosive strength
the latter is key if you want to be atheletic (or play alot of sport) and to get that kind of strength i would do 4x10 at a very high tempo and then overload on your last set (im a strong believer in 5 sets).

They key bit there is the high tempo all movements in the exercise must be explosive! An example on the flat bench would be slow down and then fire up as fast as you can (ofc not so fast you mess your joints up)

For static strength (or beach bums) slow reps at 5-8 would suffice as long as your maxing out. I'd argue that bicep curls do indeed add to stength - i wouldnt say dont do them and i wouldnt say you have to them either if you do compound excercises. But dont neglect them.

The trick is, as i've read in arnie's encyclopedia of body building, is to isolate muscles therefore you can 'gym' pretty much everyday of the week. He explained about being able to bench everyday if you isolate the top and bottom of the pectorals. So maybe something to consider within your routine.

Again i am a strong believer in that most of your stength is in your core body work - this doesnt mean just your abs! its all big muscles! such as chest and back and the quads/hammys. A strong core = a strong athlete = a strong person.

And on a side note, dont forget mental strength is as important as physical strength in progressing through weights!

[SeriousSam]

anyone recommending bicep curls for strength are plain wrong. For getting big, yes, for big arms to flex in the pub fine. But for strength pointless imo

Squat, deadlift, bench, overhead press, power cleans, snatches etc are the way to go imo for functional, explosive strength. This is what I have been told by multiple athletes.

Key words here are "explosive strength" as this is just as much about control and co-ordination as it is about strength, hence doing exercises like clean and jerks. Isolating muscle groups also provides strength but in a different way, as you train the muscles to be strong over their full range of motion more effectively and to be "strong" over more than one lift. So as always it comes down to what you want to achieve.

[sp3n]

i definitely prefer training at home
i have been lifting weights for almost 2 years now and i have found that compound exercises work best for me.
my routines consist of flat/incline bench, squats, deadlifts, power cleans, military press.
i love the fact that i feel stronger each week, going from squatting with no weight at all at 9 stone 7, to squatting 110kg at 12 stone 12

[SiM]

The one you were thinking of (lifting the bar from the floor) was either a "dead lift" which works the core muscles of the lower back (plus your legs to a lesser extent) or a clean & jerk if you lift from floor to shoulders then press above head

Nah, of course I know those lol, those are common lifts. I was talking about something uncommon. I found what they are called... Steinborn Lifts

SeriousSam. He's chuffing serious

Well, sort of lol. I honestly believe that with my equipment - bar, bench (with incline/decline), rack, dumbells (that use olympic plates) - I can near-optimally train every muscle for power lifting or bodybuilding.

I am not saying isolating is useless. Its just that most beginners focus on it way too much. Until you can do pull/chin ups, squat/bench/deadlift at least your body weight (which is not hard), your time is better spent on compounds rather than isolating (unless you train 5 times a week).

[SeriousSam]

I'd forgotten about them but was never a fan of Steinborn Lifts as I prefered Lateral cable bends for working the core at sides, but agree they do work well for that and getting bars up when not having a rack.

Well I used to be serious about it, but these days am happy to maintain and improve overal physique while working more on aerobic fitness. Admittedly thats a lot easier to do having taken it seriously at one point as I have plenty of musclemass to work with.

Agreed that excessive isolation exercises as a beginner isn't the way to go, but would contend that you do need to do some, e.g. incline press, rear delts and forearms just to balance things out and minimise the risk of injuries.

As for near optimal training then with that setup powerlifting would not be an issue at all, but bodybuilding would were you to want a fully proportioned physique (and I don't mean the modern competition ideal as to be honest that looks horrific, me I always thought Serge Nubret looked the best). That requires a lot of tweaking of exercises to eliminate weaknesses which you just can't do without a lot of equipment. Dumbells just don't cut it for training arms and shoulders especially as the force exerted on the muscle isn't uniform over the range of motion. You need cables for that and not many people have an over and under double cable system at home.