The Bike Lane Debate

[menthel]

Then ban ALL road traffic and be done with it. I think car drivers and motorcyclists are just as bad.

[5lab]

also, lets kill all people, because that'd stop murders and crime

bloody muppets.

[menthel]

Now there is an idea........

[TeePee]

Car drivers didn't take to the pavements, and only one silly muppet rode his moped along there. HUNDREDS of cyclists did.

90% of people don't commit murder. More than 90% of cyclists endanger others.

[herulach]

Car drivers didn't take to the pavements, and only one silly muppet rode his moped along there. HUNDREDS of cyclists did.

90% of people don't commit murder. More than 90% of cyclists endanger others.

Dross, total tripe. a) even if 90% of cyclists in london were crap, (which im relatively sure they arent) that isnt the same as everywhere else. Ive seen an elderly woman killed by someone who ran a red light in a car. Lets ban all cars.

Cycling on the pavement is perfectly safe provided your sensible about it, if someone wasnt, then fair enough, they are to blame, and they did something wrong, but I (and hundreds of other people at uni) ride in a very busy pedestrianised area every day, and ive never seen anyone hurt.

[TeePee]

Hang on, you said you agreed with me that those who don't obey the rules of the road should be banned, but now you admit to riding in a pedestrian area. You are obviously one of the 90%. I didn't say they were crap, I said they endangered others, normally with a blase attitude to traffic laws.

You are right, there are always a few idiots in cars, or on bikes or bicycles. But it's not a few idiots on bicycles, it's 90% of them.

[schmunk]

But it's not a few idiots on bicycles, it's 90% of them.

Oh, don't be so pathetic.

[5lab]

to be honest, what percentage of drivers speed? 90%?? i woudl think its near enough there.. how many dont signal, use a phone, or adjust radio stations whilst driving?? how many drink and drive or dont sleep enough? probably more than the number of cyclists who are a genuine danger..

if anyone can show me that more cyclists injure people than car drivers, i'll sit down and shut up.

[shiato storm]

hmmmm... london drivers vs london cyclists?
i can see where this is going. drivers on the whole are ok, as are the cyclists but it does take a few miserable underachieving souls to shag it all up for everyone else. i think its appropriate I shared my thoughts on this at this stage. I've lived in london most of my life, was at school outside but london was home. then went to two uni's in london, ucl and king's. i cycled a fair bit being part of the boatclub, to-ing and fro-ing it just made things easier. I ride fast both on and off road on a mountain bike (as an example I could get from home in notting hill out to chiswick/kew bridge in around 12 to 13mins on average), not dangerously fast but yes, I'll put my hand up to admit I do take the odd risk here and there but doesn't every london cyclist the moment they hit the tarmac?! I wish I didn't have to but there are moments when you just have to stick to your guns and if that ends up slowing idiots down behind you then so be it. A mate of mine had a car door open on him cause moments before a car pushed him into the side just as someone opened their door...one cut muscle and several stitches later is not where I want to be, so I do conciously avoid being put in that potential situation by making my presence and intentions known. in a traffic jam or lead up to lights I do go between cars, i prefer not to have an exhaust pipe chugging out crap at me as I wait so I slip though and wait ahead, plus a bike accelerates much faster than a car so it pays to get in front and take off so they all know and see you there. this has had its draw backs though... once I had some git who seemed, apparently, upset that a bike was actaully faster than his volvo, something about him spending lots on leather seats - i dunno i wasn't listening - anyway off the lights the road narrows due to cars parked either side (covering up what bike lane there may have been anyway) so with on coming traffic there's FA i could do but gun it off the lights and just carry on. this muppet revs up behind flashing his lights but I stay where I am, i say again there;s on coming traffic so its not like he could really go round anyway - to do taht I would have to actually stop, hold the bike above my head and side-step between the parked cars to get off the road. ******, is what you call someone who can't comprehend this. after about 300-400metres the parked cars finish I move in a few feet and the guy pulls up level and doesn't keep going - he's shouting something through his electrically heated window but going along at 30k i'm not in a chatty mood. i figured if he was in such a hurry he'd not want a long drawn out conversation about the weather. i felt one finger sufficed clearly pointing out that he should go elsewhere and look for himself. i guess felt this was unjust, perhaps he'd rev'ed his car just that but more today? maybe he didn't want to talk about the weather, still he shot off and pulled up - sort of in the way of me and everyone else behind now, approaching fast. there was something about starting a fight and a 'come on then' to which I indicated would be a good idea to continue around the corner, he got back in and took the next left. I began to follow but then shrugged my shoulders and tootled on towards my destination not turning off and remaining untroubled. some drivers aren't too smart.
I do not see myself as a dangerous rider, in fact probably i'm one of the more aware ones out there, and riding at a decent pace you have to be or at least be able to get yourself out of a potentially nasty situation through deft control of steering and acceleration. I used to ride with head phones when training but don't now, need to keep senses tuned at all times. I'm quite light and fit so on a bike acceleration isn't too slow in coming. i do stop at red lights unless there's nothing around and its one of those lame ones that just go off on a timer. more often than not I stop to let people to cross at zebra crossings. but what does annoy me is the lack of awareness of others, it doesn't take a moment to took round and check i'm there or any other cyclist. if I were a car then the situation would be differnt. in traffic I've found you have to ride aggressively otehrwise you get pushed around so fast you never get anywhere, its about being confident. London buses are the worst. perhaps only slightly less worse when driven by males but still pretty shonky to say the least. they actaully train them to not worry about looking round over their outside shoulder when they pull out. and some nipple has made a law saying the bus has right of way when pulling out now which makes it even worse. but they're down right lethal coming in to a bus stop...I was (once again happily) going along a road, lets call it Chiswick High Street - roads virtually empty on a week day afternoon one summer. bus up ahead pulls in to stop A and I sail past freely. maybe 20seconds pass and I sense the bus has begun its journey again. bus stop B is approaching now roughly 300m off. the bus ever gaining but I'm confident I'll pass the stop way way ahead and thus not trouble any passengers on said bus. 150m to go and the bus is still a bit of a way off but gaining. 100m and he's pretty close now. and with less than 50m to go he accelerated hard swerved out - in front of me - and then back in slamming on the brakes...so unexpected was this maneuver that there was no way I was going to stop in time. so I hopped the curb, clipped my shoulder on the back of the now stopped bus and almost killed an OAP that bizaarely had managed to remain standing throughout the entire episode and was stepping down off the bus as I passed. I hopped off in front of the bus and really pounded the front windshield, and driver's window. and did he understand what he'd done. like F he did! the morron couldn't even speak clear english, I'm not racist but that pretty much tipped me over the edge there and then. was I sorry? no, i could have been killed or killed someone myself.
buses have run me off the road in similar ways
taxi's...actually not too bad, at least I've not had any trouble.
the worst has to be the very small women driving very big cars group. mothers in kensington fall in to this category as do all the wives of rich arabians who give them mercedes, and not just any merc's but the really fat massive ones. WHO'S IDEA WAS THAT!!!! just so wrong on every level. they can't see over the steering wheel, how the hell do they have the preception to control a big car like that? its a wonder they get out of the drive way (maybe they get a servant to do that!). utterly shocking...

how to not be involved in a car wreck as a cyclist:
cycle defesively and aggressively, make the cars know you are there and stick to your ground. if there isn't enough space for a car to confortably pass by you then don't pull in, stay where you are. pulling in only encourages the muppet to try it on and it usually ends in you being ground to a paste on the side of a passat. a terrible end really.
know your abilities; if you are fit and can accelerate away rapidly then use that to your advantage but if you're not sure don't take a risk. if a car is coming up and you don't know whether to let it pass or to go ahead yourself, then don't even bother about going. there must be no doubt in your mind.
know where you are going; if you know your destination there may well be less driven/less clogged up routes. use them.
Watch out for yourself on round-a-bouts; because no one else is. trust me, wait until its clear on the right and never go at the same time as a car coming out of the same place as you are. here is where it helps to drift a little into the middle of the lane before you reace the round-a-bout and thus ensuring some muppet doesn't cut you up.
basically leave nothing to chance, obey the simple things like red lights, they're usually a good idea - some are admittedly rather random and ignorable but most are good to obey.
wear lots of lights, though some people are determined to ignore even these and just be as brutally confident as you can be

[DaBeeeenster]

Great points Shiato. I cycle to work pretty much daily and can testify to this.

The number of drivers in London that turn left without indicating is insane. I nearly hit two cars today on my way in for this reason.

[5lab]

ahh yeah - cars do that alot round here too - i try to avoid it by cycling down the middle of the road if going past a queue of stationary traffic - its normally easier to read drivers intent from there

[5lab]

ahh yeah - cars do that alot round here too - i try to avoid it by cycling down the middle of the road if going past a queue of stationary traffic - its normally easier to read drivers intent from there

[herulach]

Hang on, you said you agreed with me that those who don't obey the rules of the road should be banned, but now you admit to riding in a pedestrian area. You are obviously one of the 90%. I didn't say they were crap, I said they endangered others, normally with a blase attitude to traffic laws.

You are right, there are always a few idiots in cars, or on bikes or bicycles. But it's not a few idiots on bicycles, it's 90% of them.

A blase attitude to traffic laws is something you have to cultivate if you dont want to die. for example, on my way to uni i have to cross a very busy, and massively spaghetti like junction. ITs hard to know where to go when youre on a car, so rather than either a, hold traffic up, or b, sit basically unprotected in the middle of 4 lanes of traffic, i hop the kerb and ride across the pedestrian crossing, if theres lots of people about i dismount. Ive seen police cyclists do the same thing. As 5lab says, how many times have you sped or turned with no indicator? Both far more potentially dangerous than me riding slowly across a pedestrian crossing at low speed. If the answer to both is never then fair enough, ill hold my hands up and amdit that youre better than me, but i highly suspect it isnt.

[shiato storm]

you can also tap on their windows too. its normally the ones on their mobiles that really do it for me, if I see one I slowly come along side then palm open slap the window, HARD! BAM! makes them do one of three things;
brake hard
drop the phone
both...

its a cruel yet simple pleasure I reserve for those special rides home.
I made myself some halogen lights recently, flipping bright too. certainly maks you stand out in the traffic, no messing. I'd love some arc lights though, pretty awesome, burn a few retinas and get my own back at least, tha numbers of idiots that drive with full beam on...

[TeePee]

Buses are worse than cyclists.

Whenever there is a thread here about speed cameras, someone will whale in about how if you don't speed, you don't get caught. There are people who use this very forum who don't speed. Personally I do obey posted speed limits, religiously, and there are a lot of car drivers who do. Maybe fewer young males than average.

Are there any cyclists at all who obey the law? All we have here are a bunch sharing tips on how to ride aggressively.

Back to the cycle lane topic, I am an absolute supporter, simply because anything which keeps cyclists away from traffic is a good thing. But they should be properly implimented to keep cyclists off the roads, and the 20 feet of cycle lane up to traffic lights doesn't do this. Cyclists only pull away from the lights quicker because they jump them.

[herulach]

Buses are worse than cyclists.

Whenever there is a thread here about speed cameras, someone will whale in about how if you don't speed, you don't get caught. There are people who use this very forum who don't speed. Personally I do obey posted speed limits, religiously, and there are a lot of car drivers who do. Maybe fewer young males than average.

Are there any cyclists at all who obey the law? All we have here are a bunch sharing tips on how to ride aggressively.

Back to the cycle lane topic, I am an absolute supporter, simply because anything which keeps cyclists away from traffic is a good thing. But they should be properly implimented to keep cyclists off the roads, and the 20 feet of cycle lane up to traffic lights doesn't do this. Cyclists only pull away from the lights quicker because they jump them.

You can ride in a defensive manner (take up a full lane etc), while remaining within the law, infact thats actually reccomended practice at some bike schools. As ive previously said, anyone who rides dangerously should be stopped, as should anyone in a car, that doesnt mean everyone should be stopped riding bikes.