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Thread: External HDD question, in 2 parts

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    Ghost of Hexus Present sammyc's Avatar
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    External HDD question, in 2 parts

    I bought one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hitachi-De...item4acedd468b intending to fit it in one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-2-0-3-...item2a09d335a2 (for no better reason than having the case already & wanted to have a go - not necessarily for the end purpose of gaining an external drive, more for education).

    On checking, the drive does not 100% fit the enclosure - it seems shorter & a little chunkier than a similar existing drive I have, & therefore the side retaining screws do not line up, though it will fit ish, as far as connecting it & reassembling goes. However the drive itself is not being detected by windows, which leads me to the following -

    1. In what way do 3.5 sata drives vary in spec (if at all) such that you would know you are buying something that will fit (wasn't aware they were anything other than standard)?

    2. Am I right in assuming that the drive should still work regardless, as long as it's connected, ie although it obviously needs to be in an enclosure that shouldn't affect it's functionality for test purposes? I have power lights which I realise doesn't prove a lot but nothing else, nothing in disk management &c. Do I suspect a dead drive? Probably no simple way for me to test it as I am not about to try it as an internal, so I really only want to know if it should work.

    Thanks..

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    Re: External HDD question, in 2 parts

    I have yet to come across an HD that won't work if connected with power and data cables, and that goes back to the days of 5MB (yes, megabyte) drives, and includes not just SATA, but IDE, SCSI, RLL, MFM, ESDI, etc.

    I have an external dock for SATA drives where I just plug a bare drive into it and it works.

    As for physical size, as far as I'm aware, all 3.5" drives should be the same physical size, with screw holes in the same place. If they weren't, drive selection would be a nightmare.

    If you plug data and power cables into a SATA drive, connected (obviously) to a kniwn working system with known working cables, then it not working suggests a dead drive. Do you have another drive you can connect to those same cables?

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    Re: External HDD question, in 2 parts

    Oh, and you should at least be able to feel the slight vibration in that drive as it powers up. If you do, the motor is at least running. It doesn't necessarily mean the drive works, but it at least eliminates the power cable as the problem.

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    Re: External HDD question, in 2 parts

    Thanks for that.

    Pictures added for reference..









    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    I have yet to come across an HD that won't work if connected with piwer and data cables, and that goes back to the days of 5MB (yes, megabyte) drives, and includes not just SATA, but IDE, SCSI, RLL, MFM, ESDI, etc.

    I have an external dock for SATA drives where I just plug a bare drive into it and it works.
    That's more or less what I thought. As far as testing another drive, yes I currently have a similar drive (except for the dimensions of drive being different, as mentioned) and I have tested it with this drive's cables & vice versa. Will go & re-connect for signs of life.

    Any spotting of glaring errors (mine or otherwise) much appreciated..
    Last edited by sammyc; 21-04-2014 at 01:41 PM.

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    Re: External HDD question, in 2 parts

    Unplug the HDD and plug it in again. Enclosures sometimes do not make perfect connections and just popping it out and back in may help.

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    Re: External HDD question, in 2 parts

    ^ Thanks, I have had a fair few run-throughs now of trying it in & out of the enclosure without success. And..

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    Oh, and you should at least be able to feel the slight vibration in that drive as it powers up. If you do, the motor is at least running. It doesn't necessarily mean the drive works, but it at least eliminates the power cable as the problem.
    .. there is indeed no vibration, hum or otherwise so it's looking like a dead drive (as the power cables are fine with the other drive.) Have to write it off to experience I guess.

    Which just leaves my point of, what's with the sizing anomalies..? For future reference.
    Last edited by sammyc; 21-04-2014 at 06:53 PM.

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    Re: External HDD question, in 2 parts

    That one kinda has me scratching my head. Unless it is a very old HDD I don't know why it would be out of place. Pulled this from WD website as it is the only style I know of on current 3.5" drives.

    Struggling to find any recent drive with an odd screw location. Generic google searching is just generating pages of MFG information on their HDD's. Did you try to drive again, making sure everything was in just right?

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    Re: External HDD question, in 2 parts

    Well the dimensions of that diagram seem entirely concomitant with mine, so I'm equally confused, as that would mean my screw locations aren't anything odd, yet it certainly doesn't line up. Date on my HDD is 2006, same as the similar model I linked to in first post. But from the quick visual check of my other drive I would say that was longer and a little slimmer, though I haven't taken it out entirely as I didn't particularly want to chance it with what's backed up on it.

    I have retried carefully without the case, so I can observe nothing has slipped with the connection, and based on the presumption it should respond with or w/o case, still nothing.
    Last edited by sammyc; 21-04-2014 at 08:52 PM.

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    Re: External HDD question, in 2 parts

    The end pieces of the enclosure haven't been exchanged have they?

    As for the function, it does indeed sound as if the drive mechanics are shot if you can't here it spin up. You might be worth running some SMART tools on it to see if it gives any data back from its internal operating system.
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    Re: External HDD question, in 2 parts

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    The end pieces of the enclosure haven't been exchanged have they?
    Good thought but no.. and if they had it wouldn't fit then, either..

    Windows will not recognise the drive full stop.. so running any form of testing is not going to be an option with an undetected drive.

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    Re: External HDD question, in 2 parts

    No-one else with the faintest idea why apparently standard size drive A doesn't seem compatible with apparently standard size enclosure B?

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    Re: External HDD question, in 2 parts

    Guessing that the enclosure has not been made to accept any drive perfectly. There are some differences between drives and some are quite bulky (especially older drives), while others can be very slim (the 250GB WD drives HP ship in Microservers for instance).....and there are a few standards for screw alignment, which 2 holes are never going to cover.
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    Re: External HDD question, in 2 parts

    Thanks.. far from the fairly-exact science I thought it would be, then. Does seem like that makes buying an A + B combo that will go together somewhat pot luck.. unless you confidently know your specs already.. have had a squint at my existing drive so I know what would be one definite ok match. If I wish to go down that route.

    You live & learn..

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    Re: External HDD question, in 2 parts

    Well I wouldn't be worried about getting odd ball dimensions if you buy mainstream. Just avoid crazy knock off stuff and old items and you should run into very few problems.

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    Re: External HDD question, in 2 parts

    I can imagine an old drive like that requiring quite a lot of power to spin it up, more than a single USB connector can provide. Has it got plenty of power getting to it, preferably an external power pack or at least a twin USB power feed?

    Testing it as an internal drive is really the only way to be really sure if it is OK.

    As for sizing, I can't believe Hitachi would make a physically out of spec drive, specially as IBM did the initial design on that one so two companies would have to mess up. I kind of wonder if the enclosure has the slots drilled in the wrong location on the extrusion (I wondered about the two ends getting swapped, sounds like you eliminated that though).

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    Re: External HDD question, in 2 parts

    Quote Originally Posted by Stylin View Post
    Well I wouldn't be worried about getting odd ball dimensions if you buy mainstream. Just avoid crazy knock off stuff and old items and you should run into very few problems.
    Well I freely admit that mainstream for me in this instance meant 'buy a drive there seem to be plenty of on ebay & team it with a drive enclosure that seems to very common'. Not exactly scientific but I assumed if there was any vital issue I'd have come across it when googling/youtubing. Also I was going by sammy's rule which says when just messing about with something, buy cheap.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    I can imagine an old drive like that requiring quite a lot of power to spin it up, more than a single USB connector can provide. Has it got plenty of power getting to it, preferably an external power pack or at least a twin USB power feed?

    Testing it as an internal drive is really the only way to be really sure if it is OK.

    As for sizing, I can't believe Hitachi would make a physically out of spec drive, specially as IBM did the initial design on that one so two companies would have to mess up. I kind of wonder if the enclosure has the slots drilled in the wrong location on the extrusion (I wondered about the two ends getting swapped, sounds like you eliminated that though).
    It's running off its own power source, as is my other drive which is a Seagate Barracuda from only 2 years later. Going by Stylin's link the Hitachi would appear not to be out of spec - but as stated the Seagate fits this type of enclosure fine so that pairing is ok; that may run for Barracuda across the board or also depend on age for all I know at the moment.
    Last edited by sammyc; 25-04-2014 at 11:20 AM.

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