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Thread: New Nas recommendation

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    Question New Nas recommendation

    Hi Folks,

    Last year my NAS suddenly died. However, I was luckily able to fix it and it has been fine since.

    However, I have decided to upgrade anyway. But I am stuck on what to get.

    Synology DS2422+ - this would have been ideal
    But it seems that Synology is stupidly (for a non enterprise device) enforcing the use of their own extortionate hard drives. You can use other drives, but the volumes will always display as critical and will not allow you to view SMART data etc. As I said, a rediculous change.

    So I am left with two options (if I stick with Synology).

    1. DS1821+ - 8 Bay Nas. This doesn't have the hard drive issue. Same hardware as the 2422+.

    So I can either use the 1821+ with the dx517 expansion unit or get the ds1821+ and a DS920+. Prices crazily are similar between the expansion unit and a full device. I would be keen not to split the one volume over the expansion unit anyway. Obviously a 12 bay would be preferable. But not with Synologys latest decisions around drives.

    Keen to hear other people's thoughts. I already have the hard drives (12 in total). Although if the 18tb offer comes on again, I may get 2. I normally tend to run Synologys SHR2.
    Home Entertainment =Epson TW9400, Denon AVRX6300H, Panasonic DPUB450EBK 4K Ultra HD Blu-Ray and Monitor Audio Silver RX 7.0, Monitor Audio CT265IDC(x4) Dolby Atmos and XTZ 12.17 Sub - (Config 7.1.4)
    My System=Gigabyte X470 Aorus Gaming 7 Wi-Fi, AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, Patriot 32 GB DDR4 3200MHz, 1TB WD_Black SN770, 1TB Koxia nvme, MSI RTX4070Ti Gaming X TRIO, Enermax Supernova G6 850W, Lian LI Lancool 3, 2x QHD 27in Monitors. Denon AVR1700H & Wharfedale DX-2 5.1 Sound
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    Diskstation/HTPC - Synology DS1821+ 16GB Ram - 10Gbe NIC with 45TB & Synology DS1821+ 8GB Ram - 10Gbe NIC with 14TB & Synology DS920+ 9TB
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  2. #2
    Spreadie
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    Re: New Nas recommendation

    Only supports Synology drives? Really?!?

    That's mad.

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    neonplanet40 (02-01-2022)

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    Re: New Nas recommendation

    Wow, I expect that change will lose them a fair few (non-enterprise) customers then, especially any who shuck externals to have cheaper drives to put in them.

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    neonplanet40 (02-01-2022)

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    Re: New Nas recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Output View Post
    Wow, I expect that change will lose them a fair few (non-enterprise) customers then, especially any who shuck externals to have cheaper drives to put in them.
    That would be me haha. For the same price as the ds2422+, you can get 2x 1821+. No hard drive 'lock' either.

    At the moment, I think I'm looking at an 1821+ and then another full DS unit (no expansion unit) for another volume. Budget for second unit is £500. Not sure what to get.
    Home Entertainment =Epson TW9400, Denon AVRX6300H, Panasonic DPUB450EBK 4K Ultra HD Blu-Ray and Monitor Audio Silver RX 7.0, Monitor Audio CT265IDC(x4) Dolby Atmos and XTZ 12.17 Sub - (Config 7.1.4)
    My System=Gigabyte X470 Aorus Gaming 7 Wi-Fi, AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, Patriot 32 GB DDR4 3200MHz, 1TB WD_Black SN770, 1TB Koxia nvme, MSI RTX4070Ti Gaming X TRIO, Enermax Supernova G6 850W, Lian LI Lancool 3, 2x QHD 27in Monitors. Denon AVR1700H & Wharfedale DX-2 5.1 Sound
    Home Server 2/HTPC - Ryzen 5 3600, Asus Strix B450, 16GB Ram, EVGA GT1030 SC, 2x 2TB Cruscial SSD, Corsair TX550, Plex Server & Nvidia Shield Pro 4K
    Diskstation/HTPC - Synology DS1821+ 16GB Ram - 10Gbe NIC with 45TB & Synology DS1821+ 8GB Ram - 10Gbe NIC with 14TB & Synology DS920+ 9TB
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    Re: New Nas recommendation

    Here's a couple of ideas I've been toying with that might be of interest.
    Having had an awful experience with QNAP, I can't see me trying a pre-built NAS system in the near future.

    Silverstone are about the only manufacturer in the home market that I've found still offering a good selection of disk orientated chassis.

    The first idea I'm exploring is to go with their DS380.
    This is an 8x bay 3.5" with an addition of 4x 2.5".
    It supports Mini-DTX & Mini-ITX motherboards. So excluding the disks you could get a really cheap system up & running that's to your specification and upgrade path.
    https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=452

    Similarly they have the CS381, this goes up to a Micro ATX size should you want to put in more daughter boards for things.
    https://www.silverstonetek.com/produ...id=861&area=en

    The second idea is with their TS821S, as I've already got some RAID cards, I could utilise the external Mini-SAS option and get one of these external disk bays
    https://www.silverstonetek.com/produ...rea=en&pid=719

    With these options though, there will be no ability to easily identify a failed drive without making a list of serial numbers and slots you've put them in.

    But the flip side is you get to choose your own OS, boards, CPU etc...

    Furthermore while I have RAID cards, I don't actually put the disks into a RAID any more with the exception of the OS drives where I simply mirror them.
    I've adopted drive pooling for the main storage so I can use any sized disk lying around without the need to match brand, speed, interface or capacity of any other drive in the same pool.
    I currently use Stable-Bit Drive Pool, but if you're not using Windows there are alternate Linux options out there.

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    neonplanet40 (02-01-2022)

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    Re: New Nas recommendation

    I think I will have to stick with Synology. Their software is just so easy. People in my household use their photos app to automatically back up images and videos etc. Others use surveillance station. As much as I have disliked core parts of their business, it's an ecosystem I'm unable to leave for as long as my family use the Nas.
    Home Entertainment =Epson TW9400, Denon AVRX6300H, Panasonic DPUB450EBK 4K Ultra HD Blu-Ray and Monitor Audio Silver RX 7.0, Monitor Audio CT265IDC(x4) Dolby Atmos and XTZ 12.17 Sub - (Config 7.1.4)
    My System=Gigabyte X470 Aorus Gaming 7 Wi-Fi, AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, Patriot 32 GB DDR4 3200MHz, 1TB WD_Black SN770, 1TB Koxia nvme, MSI RTX4070Ti Gaming X TRIO, Enermax Supernova G6 850W, Lian LI Lancool 3, 2x QHD 27in Monitors. Denon AVR1700H & Wharfedale DX-2 5.1 Sound
    Home Server 2/HTPC - Ryzen 5 3600, Asus Strix B450, 16GB Ram, EVGA GT1030 SC, 2x 2TB Cruscial SSD, Corsair TX550, Plex Server & Nvidia Shield Pro 4K
    Diskstation/HTPC - Synology DS1821+ 16GB Ram - 10Gbe NIC with 45TB & Synology DS1821+ 8GB Ram - 10Gbe NIC with 14TB & Synology DS920+ 9TB
    Portable=Microsoft Surface Pro 4, Huawei M5 10" & HP Omen 15 laptop

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    Re: New Nas recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by neonplanet40 View Post
    I think I will have to stick with Synology. Their software is just so easy. People in my household use their photos app to automatically back up images and videos etc. Others use surveillance station. As much as I have disliked core parts of their business, it's an ecosystem I'm unable to leave for as long as my family use the Nas.
    That is what I liked about QNAP, set and forget and ease of use, until the hardware went catastrophically wrong.
    Unless FreeNAS/TrueNAS had similar apps and an ecosystem then as you say you'll probably have to stick with Synology.

    The reason I decided not to stick with QNAP is, as I found out if the device itself fails, I have absolutely no way of reading the data that was on there.
    In order to be protected from a device failure I'd have to buy a second QNAP or other device, so I just thought what's the point I can do it far cheaper on a Windows or Linux self built device where it doesn't matter if any aspect of the device, OS or pool fails, I can bung the disks into another system, load up the software and it's where I left off.

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    Re: New Nas recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadie View Post
    Only supports Synology drives? Really?!?

    That's mad.
    Weeeelll, it's kinda in line with their philosophy, especially compared to QNAP. It's also part of he Apple v MS argument, though recently, MS has been going more into that mindset with forced updates on W8, 10 11 etc. It's also sort-of the Google mindset in what they've been doing with Android for quite some years, which is driving out the open-source bits and locking users into their ecosystem, because it suits their agenda.

    i.e. it's the way of big corporations, if they believe they can get away with it.

    And up to a point, they all have a point, from the perspective of supporting a less diverse platform if we all have the same hardware.

    QNAP are a fair bit more relaxed. For instance, in memory upgrades not having to be their own, and having a pretty long list of compatible hard drives.

    @neon - wish I could help, but my experience, such as it is, is with MUCH smaller NAS boxes. In fact, I only fairly recently went from my antique SCSI server (running dual Celeron 550's, believe it or not) and while I'm still not entirely sure the 4-bay NAS I went for is quite big enough it is, with 12TB drives, high enough for me for quite a while.

    As for software, in the things I do, there was pretty much equality between QNAP and Synology in what they can do, though again, a bit of a different approach in how they did it. One analogy was that Synology is more of an Apple, and QNAP is more of a Windows. That is, you can do prety much the same things, but with Synology they expect you to adapt and do things their way, and it's easy, whereas Windows lets you set most things up more how you want it .... but is a much sharper learning curve, not least 'cos there's often half a dozen different ways to get from A to B.

    QNAP has a pretty big suite of thing like photo software too, and for that matter, backup software. But .... WRT to how easy it is, I refer back to that Apple v Windows analogy. I guess it's always the case, that if you enable extra options, extra capabilities, you inevitably end up with extra complications and learning curve.

    Which means not only can't I help because of the NAS size thing, but also, because I prefer the other mindset, which is largely why I went QNAP.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

  12. #9
    Spreadie
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    Re: New Nas recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by AGTDenton View Post
    Here's a couple of ideas I've been toying with that might be of interest.
    Having had an awful experience with QNAP, I can't see me trying a pre-built NAS system in the near future.
    I haven't had an issue with my QNAP box, but recent fumbles have shaken my faith in them. So I'm on with building a home brew setup at the moment and will be flogging my QNAP shortly.
    Quote Originally Posted by AGTDenton View Post
    Similarly they have the CS381, this goes up to a Micro ATX size should you want to put in more daughter boards for things.
    https://www.silverstonetek.com/produ...id=861&area=en
    I bought a CS381 a couple weeks back - got it for ~£175 on Amazon warehouse, and got a further £50 off when it arrived damaged, because it wasn't in it's original packaging. Nothing so bad that I couldn't fix it - the front fascia was snapped clean off the chassis but was soon fixed with some hot glue - but £125 for a chassis that retails for ~£300... hard to complain.

    Note: just in case you don't already know, you'll need to source your own 4X SATA to SFF-8643 cables for the CS381 and you MUST get the reverse cable where the 4xSATA is Host and the SFF-8643 is the Target. I didn't even know that was a thing until I started researching it.
    Quote Originally Posted by AGTDenton View Post
    But the flip side is you get to choose your own OS, boards, CPU etc...
    I had a spare mATX B365 board, some RAM and a i5 8600 I've used to get it up and running but I plan on replacing the 8600 with a 8500T. The board has m.2 for the OS and six SATA ports, but it has PCIE x1 x4 and x16 slots, so a 10G NIC/HBA/SATA card and a GPU are on the table. I have a couple of 10G NICs so I can move the data between the QNAP and the CS381, and then I'll pull the QM2 card from the QNAP and stick it in the CS381 with a couple of m.2 drives on it for caching.

    I have windows installed for now but the OS is the one thing I'm spending a lot of time contemplating, and the only thing stopping me from finishing the project.
    Last edited by Spreadie; 03-01-2022 at 12:44 AM.

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    Senior Member AGTDenton's Avatar
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    Re: New Nas recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadie View Post
    Note: just in case you don't already know, you'll need to source your own 4X SATA to SFF-8643 cables for the CS381 and you MUST get the reverse cable where the 4xSATA is Host and the SFF-8643 is the Target. I didn't even know that was a thing until I started researching it.
    Thanks I've been through that hell, actually it wasn't too bad, the place I bought them from were more than willing to swap cables, but valuable lesson learned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadie View Post
    I had a spare mATX B365 board, some RAM and a i5 8600 I've used to get it up and running but I plan on replacing the 8600 with a 8500T. The board has m.2 for the OS and six SATA ports, but it has PCIE x1 x4 and x16 slots, so a 10G NIC/HBA/SATA card and a GPU are on the table. I have a couple of 10G NICs so I can move the data between the QNAP and the CS381, and then I'll pull the QM2 card from the QNAP and stick it in the CS381 with a couple of m.2 drives on it for caching.
    Sounds good. I was trying to find a dual Ethernet board, but they are few and far between that a NIC card is probably better anyway, and gives more options such as faster speeds in the future, should 10G start to become the norm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spreadie View Post
    I have windows installed for now but the OS is the one thing I'm spending a lot of time contemplating, and the only thing stopping me from finishing the project.
    Is this due to the lack of features or were you having some speed issues?
    If you're having speed issues there are a couple of tricks to turn Windows Pro into more of a file server.

  14. #11
    Spreadie
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    Re: New Nas recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by AGTDenton View Post
    Is this due to the lack of features or were you having some speed issues?
    If you're having speed issues there are a couple of tricks to turn Windows Pro into more of a file server.
    No, nothing specific. Just decision paralysis - can't decide if I want this to be a pure NAS and go for TrueNAS or just another Windows PC but with a gurt big storage pool, serving the house.

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