Page 1 of 5 1234 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 68

Thread: Large Hadron Collider: First Blood Part II

  1. #1
    Get in the van. Fraz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    2,919
    Thanks
    283
    Thanked
    396 times in 230 posts
    • Fraz's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte X58A-UD5
      • CPU:
      • Watercooled i7-980X @ 4.2 GHz
      • Memory:
      • 24GB Crucial DDR3-1333
      • Storage:
      • 240 GB Vertex2E + 2 TB of Disk
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Water-cooled Sapphire 7970 @ 1175/1625
      • PSU:
      • Enermax Modu87+
      • Case:
      • Corsair 700D
      • Operating System:
      • Linux Mint 12 / Windows 7
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell 30" 3008WFP and two Dell 24" 2412M
      • Internet:
      • Virgin Media 60 Mbps

    Large Hadron Collider: First Blood Part II

    The LHC is up and running again, and the first beam to be injected into the LHC from the pre-accelerators occurred about an hour ago. If you are interested, there is an e-commentary of the LHC beam commissioning here:

    http://cmsdoc.cern.ch/cms/performanc...mmentary09.htm

    This commentary is from the perspective of the CMS detector experiment, one of the two general-purpose detectors on the LHC. At time of writing, we are seeing "beam splash" at the CMS detector. Beam splash occurs when they send a single beam around the LHC and then stop it at a collimator just before the detector; since you can't really "stop" a beam very easily, a whole bunch of particles leak through and hit one side of the detector:



    So... when they reconstruct the events, they tend to look a bit funny, as the normal mode of operation of the detector is to have the beams smashing together at the centre. In the top-right section of the pic above, you can see the particles have hit the right-hand side of the detector first.

    At least, that's my limited understanding of it

  2. Received thanks from:

    Agent (07-11-2009),bsodmike (09-11-2009),chuckskull (24-11-2009),DDY (08-11-2009),GoNz0 (08-11-2009),kidzer (08-11-2009),Lanky123 (09-11-2009),Mblaster (07-11-2009),Perfectionist (07-11-2009),pollaxe (24-11-2009),Salazaar (09-11-2009),steve threlfall (07-11-2009),Stoo (07-11-2009),watercooled (07-11-2009),Zhaoman (07-11-2009)

  3. #2
    Get in the van. Fraz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    2,919
    Thanks
    283
    Thanked
    396 times in 230 posts
    • Fraz's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte X58A-UD5
      • CPU:
      • Watercooled i7-980X @ 4.2 GHz
      • Memory:
      • 24GB Crucial DDR3-1333
      • Storage:
      • 240 GB Vertex2E + 2 TB of Disk
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Water-cooled Sapphire 7970 @ 1175/1625
      • PSU:
      • Enermax Modu87+
      • Case:
      • Corsair 700D
      • Operating System:
      • Linux Mint 12 / Windows 7
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell 30" 3008WFP and two Dell 24" 2412M
      • Internet:
      • Virgin Media 60 Mbps

    Re: Large Hadron Collider: First Blood Part II

    And another beam-splash piccy:


  4. Received thanks from:

    Perfectionist (07-11-2009)

  5. #3
    Does he need a reason? Funkstar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Aberdeen
    Posts
    19,874
    Thanks
    629
    Thanked
    962 times in 813 posts
    • Funkstar's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte EG45M-DS2H
      • CPU:
      • Intel Core2Quad Q9550 (2.83GHz)
      • Memory:
      • 8GB OCZ PC2-6400C5 800MHz Quad Channel
      • Storage:
      • 650GB Western Digital Caviar Blue
      • Graphics card(s):
      • 512MB ATI Radeon HD4550
      • PSU:
      • Antec 350W 80+ Efficient PSU
      • Case:
      • Antec NSK1480 Slim Mini Desktop Case
      • Operating System:
      • Vista Ultimate 64bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell 2407 + 2408 monitors
      • Internet:
      • Zen 8mb

    Re: Large Hadron Collider: First Blood Part II

    oooh! pretty pictures!



    (forwarding this onto a friend of mine that will like it)

  6. #4
    Jay
    Jay is offline
    Gentlemen.. we're history Jay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Jita
    Posts
    8,365
    Thanks
    304
    Thanked
    568 times in 409 posts

    Re: Large Hadron Collider: First Blood Part II

    fantastic but it reminds me of a faulty X1900XT I once had
    □ΞVΞ□

  7. #5
    Keep it sexy Zhaoman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    1,527
    Thanks
    234
    Thanked
    126 times in 106 posts

    Re: Large Hadron Collider: First Blood Part II

    Brilliant news, I hope this'll work without a hitch this time round. I really hope this'll give the data that the dedicated physicists have worked so hard for. I look forward to what implications the results will have in due time

    Also: wonder why is there no 'end of the world' headlines from the media this time round? Were you just too fast with the news Fraz?

  8. #6
    Get in the van. Fraz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    2,919
    Thanks
    283
    Thanked
    396 times in 230 posts
    • Fraz's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte X58A-UD5
      • CPU:
      • Watercooled i7-980X @ 4.2 GHz
      • Memory:
      • 24GB Crucial DDR3-1333
      • Storage:
      • 240 GB Vertex2E + 2 TB of Disk
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Water-cooled Sapphire 7970 @ 1175/1625
      • PSU:
      • Enermax Modu87+
      • Case:
      • Corsair 700D
      • Operating System:
      • Linux Mint 12 / Windows 7
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell 30" 3008WFP and two Dell 24" 2412M
      • Internet:
      • Virgin Media 60 Mbps

    Re: Large Hadron Collider: First Blood Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhaoman View Post
    Also: wonder why is there no 'end of the world' headlines from the media this time round? Were you just too fast with the news Fraz?
    Good question - I don't know why it's been kept relatively quiet. I guess most of the media fuss last time was based around the black hole nonsense. And maybe it was a bit embarrassing when it broke after 9 days after all the high-profile media attention? Who knows.

  9. #7
    hi unreal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    East London & Birmingham City Uni
    Posts
    3,657
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked
    37 times in 30 posts
    • unreal's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Intel iMac 20" & Macbook
      • CPU:
      • Intel Core 2 Duo T7200 2.0Ghz
      • Memory:
      • 4gb DDR667
      • Storage:
      • 1TB 7200 Int + 1.5Tb Ext
      • Graphics card(s):
      • ATi Radeon 2400XT
      • PSU:
      • 95W or something?
      • Case:
      • Intel iMac 20" Aluminium
      • Operating System:
      • OSX Snow Leopard (Win 7 x64 on Macbook Bootcamp)
      • Monitor(s):
      • 20" @ 1680x1050 & 27" 1080p HDTV
      • Internet:
      • O2 10mb

    Re: Large Hadron Collider: First Blood Part II

    It's because John & Edward captivate far too much of the general public's minds!

  10. #8
    Senior Member Blastuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    984
    Thanks
    93
    Thanked
    66 times in 64 posts
    • Blastuk's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte Z77X-D3H
      • CPU:
      • Intel Core i5 3570
      • Memory:
      • Corsair Vengeance LP 4x4GB @ 1600mhz
      • Storage:
      • Samsung 840 Pro 250GB, Samsung 850 EVO 500GB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • GeForce GTX 970
      • PSU:
      • OCZ ZS 650W
      • Case:
      • Antec Eleven Hundred
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 7 64bit
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell 2209WA 22" + Dell U2412M 24"
      • Internet:
      • Virgin 152Mb

    Re: Large Hadron Collider: First Blood Part II

    Really hard to make sense of those pictures without being a physicist

  11. #9
    bored out of my tiny mind malfunction's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Lurking
    Posts
    3,923
    Thanks
    191
    Thanked
    187 times in 163 posts
    • malfunction's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte G1.Sniper (with daft heatsinks and annoying Killer NIC)
      • CPU:
      • Xeon X5670 (6 core LGA 1366) @ 4.4GHz
      • Memory:
      • 48GB DDR3 1600 (6 * 8GB)
      • Storage:
      • 1TB 840 Evo + 1TB 850 Evo
      • Graphics card(s):
      • 290X
      • PSU:
      • Antec True Power New 750W
      • Case:
      • Cooltek W2
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell U2715H

    Re: Large Hadron Collider: First Blood Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    fantastic but it reminds me of a faulty X1900XT I once had
    Reminds me of the intro to Another World:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZifBl9ZZUQ

    (which I'm sure we all said last time around too)

  12. Received thanks from:

    kalniel (09-11-2009)

  13. #10
    Get in the van. Fraz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    2,919
    Thanks
    283
    Thanked
    396 times in 230 posts
    • Fraz's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte X58A-UD5
      • CPU:
      • Watercooled i7-980X @ 4.2 GHz
      • Memory:
      • 24GB Crucial DDR3-1333
      • Storage:
      • 240 GB Vertex2E + 2 TB of Disk
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Water-cooled Sapphire 7970 @ 1175/1625
      • PSU:
      • Enermax Modu87+
      • Case:
      • Corsair 700D
      • Operating System:
      • Linux Mint 12 / Windows 7
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell 30" 3008WFP and two Dell 24" 2412M
      • Internet:
      • Virgin Media 60 Mbps

    Re: Large Hadron Collider: First Blood Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Blastuk View Post
    Really hard to make sense of those pictures without being a physicist
    I shall endeavour to explain, although to be honest, there isn't much sense to be had from these pictures, as what is occurring is not the type of event the software is designed to reconstruct. In these events, a big mess of particles is hitting one side of the detector, which is really not what is usually supposed to occur. In a normal event - which we'll see in a week or so hopefully - protons collide with each other at the centre of the detector, and produce much more sensible looking events.



    Anyway, that problem aside, the easiest picture to explain is the top right-hand-side part of the first picture I posted (the "rho z" bit - edit: now shown above). This is a side-on cross-section of the detector, so the LHC beam-pipe - if it were shown - runs left/right through the centre of the image. The "beam splash", i.e. the remnants of a beam that has been stopped at a collimator upstream from the detector, has hit the right hand side of the detector. At this point, I guess I should explain that the detector a bit:

    The detector is barrel-shaped, with an endcap at each end; it's about the size of a four-storey building, and weighs about 12,000 tonnes. In design terms, it's basically an onion, with many layers of different detectors. In the centre is the silicon tracker, which is designed to be as transparent as possible to radiation whilst still being able to register the passage of charged particles going through it. This is surrounded by the "ECAL" which is the electro-magnetic calorimeter, and this absorbs and measures the energies of any electrons or photons entering it. This is further surrounded by the "HCAL", which is the hadronic calorimeter. The HCAL absorbs and measures the energies of any particles made up from quarks - so, things like neutrons, protons or mesons. (A meson is a particle made from two quarks, whereas protons and neutrons have 3 quarks). Next is a big solenoidal magnet, which surrounds everything in the detector mentioned so far. You need a magnetic field so you can distinguish positively charged particles from negatively charged ones, simply by seeing which way their tracks curve whilst passing through the detector. Finally - enclosing everything - is the muon tracker/calorimeter, which samples the passage of muons as they escape the detector. Muons (a heavier version of electrons) are very good at passing through material, so in essence, most of the detector is in fact the muon calorimeter.

    Soooo, in that "rho z" picture, the muon calorimeters are the dark blue bits (muon endcaps) and the dark red bits (muon barrel). The beam is hitting the right hand muon endcap, and the light blue bits withing the dark blue areas are the energy deposits that have been registered. The red lines that go all over the place are particle tracks that the software is totally failing to reconstruct properly, simple because it's not designed to reconstruct tracks starting outside the detector. Then, in the centre of the picture are a whole bunch of light-blue and yellow bars that seem to be exploding from the centre of the detector. These are representations of the amount of energy deposited in the various bits of the electromagnetic and hadronic calorimeters - yellow for electromagnetic and light blue for hadronic. Again, these seem to be exploding from the centre of the detector, as this is where we'd normally expect the particles to be coming from.

    Um, that's about it really. The main part of that first picture (the "rho phi" part) is just a different viewpoint of the detector, looking down into the barrel - so the LHC beam pipe would be going into the centre of the picture. Again, the light blue or yellow bars in the represent energy deposits, and the red lines are bits of badly reconstructed track.

    Hope that makes some sense!
    Last edited by Fraz; 08-11-2009 at 11:20 PM. Reason: Added image

  14. Received thanks from:

    Agent (11-11-2009),bsodmike (09-11-2009),DannyM (22-11-2009),Englander (08-11-2009),kidzer (12-11-2009),Lanky123 (09-11-2009),malfunction (09-11-2009),Salazaar (09-11-2009),watercooled (09-11-2009),Zhaoman (08-11-2009)

  15. #11
    bored out of my tiny mind malfunction's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Lurking
    Posts
    3,923
    Thanks
    191
    Thanked
    187 times in 163 posts
    • malfunction's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte G1.Sniper (with daft heatsinks and annoying Killer NIC)
      • CPU:
      • Xeon X5670 (6 core LGA 1366) @ 4.4GHz
      • Memory:
      • 48GB DDR3 1600 (6 * 8GB)
      • Storage:
      • 1TB 840 Evo + 1TB 850 Evo
      • Graphics card(s):
      • 290X
      • PSU:
      • Antec True Power New 750W
      • Case:
      • Cooltek W2
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell U2715H

    Re: Large Hadron Collider: First Blood Part II

    I'll say thanks because it makes much more sense than it did but I can't pretend I've got the complete context - i.e. I now know what it's showing but I'm still not sure *why* - or rather I've no idea what the implications are of looking at the interactions of all these particles (and the elusive higgs bosons if / when they are 'found'). (before anyone starts talking about expanding 'our' understanding of particle physics / they way everything works - I get that - I just have no idea what that in turn means)
    Last edited by malfunction; 09-11-2009 at 12:17 AM.

  16. #12
    Get in the van. Fraz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    2,919
    Thanks
    283
    Thanked
    396 times in 230 posts
    • Fraz's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte X58A-UD5
      • CPU:
      • Watercooled i7-980X @ 4.2 GHz
      • Memory:
      • 24GB Crucial DDR3-1333
      • Storage:
      • 240 GB Vertex2E + 2 TB of Disk
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Water-cooled Sapphire 7970 @ 1175/1625
      • PSU:
      • Enermax Modu87+
      • Case:
      • Corsair 700D
      • Operating System:
      • Linux Mint 12 / Windows 7
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell 30" 3008WFP and two Dell 24" 2412M
      • Internet:
      • Virgin Media 60 Mbps

    Re: Large Hadron Collider: First Blood Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhaoman View Post
    Also: wonder why is there no 'end of the world' headlines from the media this time round? Were you just too fast with the news Fraz?
    So, I found out the answer to this. Apparently there will be no press releases or media shenanigans at all from CERN until they start proper proton-proton collisions. They never got quite that far last year, and until they get to the point where they are colliding protons, everything will essentially be a repeat of what happened last year - and thus semi-boring to the media.

    So... I guess you won't hear anything official from CERN for another couple of weeks. From what I've heard, every effort is going to be made so that the LHC has a chance of taking the crown as the highest energy particle accelerator in the world before the year is out. This aim is really just something to keep the politicians happy, but it'd be quite nice to make the USA's Tevatron second best before 2010

  17. #13
    Nefarious Networker Dareos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Larkhall, Scotland
    Posts
    3,389
    Thanks
    460
    Thanked
    402 times in 299 posts
    • Dareos's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte Z77 - UD3H
      • CPU:
      • Intel i5 Ivy Bridge
      • Memory:
      • 16GB Corsair Vengeance
      • Storage:
      • Crucial M4 128GB, Seagate Barracuda 2TB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Gigabyte Geforce 670 OC Windforce x 2
      • PSU:
      • Corsair 1050 Modular
      • Case:
      • Fractal R3
      • Operating System:
      • Win 7
      • Monitor(s):
      • 27" DGM and 40" Samsung TV
      • Internet:
      • 152 Mb Virgin

    Re: Large Hadron Collider: First Blood Part II

    Oh, i remember this, the 2nd picture brought it all back to me.


    This reaction was the predecessor to the initial proton bonding collision which excited the CERN scientists so much, mainly because of the possibilities of renewable energy which resulted from this test. Of course it did all go horribly wrong when they tried to recreate it on a grand scale, resulting in an explosion which wiped out switzerland and knocked the earth off its axis, culminating in a new ice age, which of course i was sent back in time to prevent.


    Of course, i might just have been tripping out on acid and looking at a spool of thread at the time...
    We're only here for the Banter - The Luvvies - Chewin' The Fat

    Violence and Lubrication is the solution to fixing everything, if it still doesn't work, you need more lubrication.

    Quote Originally Posted by this_is_gav View Post
    How do you change the height of them?

    I've just had a quick fiddle with the knob at the front :\

  18. #14
    Get in the van. Fraz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    2,919
    Thanks
    283
    Thanked
    396 times in 230 posts
    • Fraz's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte X58A-UD5
      • CPU:
      • Watercooled i7-980X @ 4.2 GHz
      • Memory:
      • 24GB Crucial DDR3-1333
      • Storage:
      • 240 GB Vertex2E + 2 TB of Disk
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Water-cooled Sapphire 7970 @ 1175/1625
      • PSU:
      • Enermax Modu87+
      • Case:
      • Corsair 700D
      • Operating System:
      • Linux Mint 12 / Windows 7
      • Monitor(s):
      • Dell 30" 3008WFP and two Dell 24" 2412M
      • Internet:
      • Virgin Media 60 Mbps

    Re: Large Hadron Collider: First Blood Part II

    First LHC beam collision occurred about 40 minutes ago:



    This was a very low-energy collision, but a collision nonetheless! If you compare against pictures I posted a while back in this thread, the above picture looks a lot more normal - i.e. the beam isn't hitting the side of the detector, but stuff is colliding at the centre instead. The outer part of the silicon tracker is now also switched on, which is why there are some properly reconstructed tracks (yellow lines) now seen that weren't in previous images. We couldn't include the tracker before from fear of damaging it with a poorly controlled beam, which is the reason why the inner tracker is still currently off.
    Last edited by Fraz; 23-11-2009 at 08:09 PM.

  19. Received thanks from:

    bsodmike (10-12-2009),Lowe (24-11-2009),Stoo (24-11-2009)

  20. #15
    Registered+
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    39
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    1 time in 1 post

    Re: Large Hadron Collider: First Blood Part II

    Great to hear - and see!

    Thanks for keeping us updated.

  21. #16
    Nefarious Networker Dareos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Larkhall, Scotland
    Posts
    3,389
    Thanks
    460
    Thanked
    402 times in 299 posts
    • Dareos's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Gigabyte Z77 - UD3H
      • CPU:
      • Intel i5 Ivy Bridge
      • Memory:
      • 16GB Corsair Vengeance
      • Storage:
      • Crucial M4 128GB, Seagate Barracuda 2TB
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Gigabyte Geforce 670 OC Windforce x 2
      • PSU:
      • Corsair 1050 Modular
      • Case:
      • Fractal R3
      • Operating System:
      • Win 7
      • Monitor(s):
      • 27" DGM and 40" Samsung TV
      • Internet:
      • 152 Mb Virgin

    Re: Large Hadron Collider: First Blood Part II

    and as we are all still here, i must have succeeded..


    its hard being this good
    We're only here for the Banter - The Luvvies - Chewin' The Fat

    Violence and Lubrication is the solution to fixing everything, if it still doesn't work, you need more lubrication.

    Quote Originally Posted by this_is_gav View Post
    How do you change the height of them?

    I've just had a quick fiddle with the knob at the front :\

Page 1 of 5 1234 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Glycemic Index - the next diet fad?!
    By Sair33 in forum Kitchen and Cooking
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 30-04-2009, 02:08 PM
  2. Large Hadron Collider
    By Brucelles in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 20-08-2008, 03:17 PM
  3. Large Hadron Collider will change the internet?
    By j1979 in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 11-04-2008, 10:33 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •