So The New Dr Who

[Saracen]

While I agree with your thoughts on Doctor Who having adapted through the years, hasn't top gear done the same? The current incarnation (or the Clarkson-May-Hammond one,) are VERY different to the show Angela Rippon introduced.

Indeed it has. The Clarkson variant rejuvenated it from a rather staid show about cars, to a personality-based messing-about televisual lad's mag, and something of a marmite experience, too.

My decision to not watch the new Top Gear was that, for me, the new line-up absolutely sucked, and Evans in particular sets my teeth on edge. And for me, without the Clarkson, Hammond and May interaction, it wasn't going to work. Nor am I taking out an Amazon subscription I otherwise fon't want just for their new show.

[Spreadie]

It'll be fine - I'm looking forward to it.

I saw a comment on the beeb that nailed it:

People who accept a shape-shifting, time-traveling immortal character unable to accept a female lead in a TV show

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Well maybe they might find a few billion missing people in their universe whilst they are at it?

[spacein_vader]

Indeed it has. The Clarkson variant rejuvenated it from a rather staid show about cars, to a personality-based messing-about televisual lad's mag, and something of a marmite experience, too.

My decision to not watch the new Top Gear was that, for me, the new line-up absolutely sucked, and Evans in particular sets my teeth on edge. And for me, without the Clarkson, Hammond and May interaction, it wasn't going to work. Nor am I taking out an Amazon subscription I otherwise fon't want just for their new show.

Agree that it was getting flat before the early '00s reimagining, but even that evolved. Try watching some of the first season of the Clarkson/May/Hammond edition and it's very clunky in places. Initially there's another presenter and May only appears a fair way into it.

The current incarnation (I'm with you on the aborted Evans led project,) strikes me as similar. I lasted less than an episode of Evans, but watched the whole series of the Le Blanc led series. It has clunky moments, but it improved and is different enough from the Clarkson era to be new, but not so different as to be unrecognisable IMO.

Saw episode 1 of the Grand Tour at a mates house and it really is just the old Top Gear on a bigger budget. Whether you'd like it or not depends exactly on how you feel about that statement. I'd stopped watching 'old' Top Gear as it had got tired IMO.

I'm optimistic and looking forward to how the change will pan out, but I do have to admit that I did wonder whether everyone was considered properly due to the Broadchurch connections.

If they were going to pick someone from Broadchurch maybe they should have considered that Scottish bloke instead? I've got a feeling he'd have done a decent job of it.

[Saracen]

...

Saw episode 1 of the Grand Tour at a mates house and it really is just the old Top Gear on a bigger budget. Whether you'd like it or not depends exactly on how you feel about that statement. I'd stopped watching 'old' Top Gear as it had got tired IMO.

....

How I felt about the Clarkson variant? Hmmm. Tricky to explain.

I guess I could say "Fan .... but barely".

In my top 100, but not my top 20.

When they were showing, I'd record them and "timeshift" .... sometimes by months. One year, I recorded the whole series without watching any, then about 6 months later, when I as in the mood, I watched three episodes on the trot, and the whole series in about a week.

So I suppose how I feel is that they're good but not great, well-watchable but certainly not unmissable.

I'm sad they've stopped on the Beeb, but certainly not sad enough to pay a subscription to another service to watch GT.

If, in an alternate universe, they came back to the BBC it'd please me but I wouldn't be wetting myself with joy.

So, does that qualify me as a fan? If it does, it's barely.

People, including probably me, have referred to TG (and Clarkson) s a marmite show .... love it or hate it. I'm the exception that proves the rule, in that I'm in the middle, but just a bit in favour. Then again, that's how I feel about marmite too .... I like it if I'm in the mood.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Matt Le Blanc has actually done a good job IMHO OFC,and its worth giving the series another go!!

[Saracen]

Matt Le Blanc has actually done a good job IMHO OFC,and its worth giving the series another go!!

Horses for courses, I guess. I've not seen a whole episode but I have seen clips and there's just something about him, on this show, that ... grates. Not on the scale that Chris Evans did, but still, enough to put me off.

Another part of it is probably that I'm losing interest in cars. I think it's because, well, several things. I don't really get a kick from driving, any more. Maybe it's that cars are getting boring. Maybe it's that roads are too congested. Maybe I'm getting old, but cars are now really a method of getting from A to B, and while I used to enjoy the process itself, now it's a chore to endure, the price of getting from A to B. Roll on the invention of a Trekian point-to-point teleporter, 'cos I'll be at the head of the queue.

So, I don't really watch car shows for the cars. I watched for the .... ummm ..... "horsing" about between rhe three of them.

It's a bit like watching an Abba (*) tribute band ... they might be very good musicians, and perfectly listenable, but Abba, they ain't.


(*) For Abba, substitute a band you like. I could have used the Beatles, Queen, whatever. The point is that a remake rarely lives up to the original.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Horses for courses, I guess. I've not seen a whole episode but I have seen clips and there's just something about him, on this show, that ... grates. Not on the scale that Chris Evans did, but still, enough to put me off.

Another part of it is probably that I'm losing interest in cars. I think it's because, well, several things. I don't really get a kick from driving, any more. Maybe it's that cars are getting boring. Maybe it's that roads are too congested. Maybe I'm getting old, but cars are now really a method of getting from A to B, and while I used to enjoy the process itself, now it's a chore to endure, the price of getting from A to B. Roll on the invention of a Trekian point-to-point teleporter, 'cos I'll be at the head of the queue.

So, I don't really watch car shows for the cars. I watched for the .... ummm ..... "horsing" about between rhe three of them.

It's a bit like watching an Abba (*) tribute band ... they might be very good musicians, and perfectly listenable, but Abba, they ain't.


(*) For Abba, substitute a band you like. I could have used the Beatles, Queen, whatever. The point is that a remake rarely lives up to the original.

TBH,I mostly watch it for the silliness,and Clarkson and co sometimes could push things a bit too far!!

[wazzickle]

1: it's not 'mr who', it's 'dr', which is a pronoun not defined by gender.

2: it's dr who, who actually cares? do people really have so little going on in their lives that this sort of thing upsets them?

[Jonj1611]

1. Always thought Dr was a noun. Happy to be corrected

2. I don't see anybody upset, just people having their opinions. Is that ok? Being a forum and all that.

[Ttaskmaster]

and Evans in particular sets my teeth on edge

I refuse to watch out of the sole principle that Evans (who I despise anyway) kept swearing blind that he was NOT doing new TG... then surprise announcement, he IS doing it now... Lying attention-seeking [censored]!!!

I saw a comment on the beeb that nailed it:
People who accept a shape-shifting, time-traveling immortal character unable to accept a female lead in a TV show

Unable to accept that what used to be an awesome show because it was different and stood apart from the crowd, is now bowing to public pressure and kow-towing.

2: it's dr who, who actually cares? do people really have so little going on in their lives that this sort of thing upsets them?

Some people have a LOT going on in their lives and this is what they watch to unwind. So when this too crawls up its own backside, that catharsis is lost. That's why people get upset over this... It's like your favourite boozer deciding it has to become a lesbian-only fruit juice bar, for politically correct reasons...

[peterb]

1: it's not 'mr who', it's 'dr', which is a pronoun not defined by gender.

2: it's dr who, who actually cares? do people really have so little going on in their lives that this sort of thing upsets them?

1. Always thought Dr was a noun. Happy to be corrected

2. I don't see anybody upset, just people having their opinions. Is that ok? Being a forum and all that.

It's a tricky one - if the name is "Dr Who" then it is a proper noun - and not gender specific. On the other hand the term Dr could be an adjective as it is could be describing what some one does (the assumption being a medical practitioner - which the Doctor (proper noun!) isn't. It can be descriptive of academic rank - where it falls back into the adjective role.

But as Wazzickle says - it is gender neutral.

(doctor can also be a verb - as in the food was doctored to make it more palatable - but clearly not the case here)

Any other Grammar Police Force members have a view?

[Smudger]

I'm going to do what I usually do with a new Doctor, give them a chance. I don't care what gender the lead actor is. It's not like it's a sacred text that's being meddled with in the interests of political correctness, it's a Saturday evening show, for kids. If you don't like there being a female in the lead role, don't watch it. I'm sure there'll be episodes of The Keystone Cops or Love Thy Neighbour on another channel.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

[Biscuit]

I think that this is one case where a (largely unnecessary) shift in gender could actually kind of fit the canon of the show. Its a twist that could work, if its handled well.

The issue is that there is a very real chance that the people involved in the making of this show don't have the best interest of the fans at heart. I'm sure we're all aware of this modern PC attitude sweeping through social media and pop culture, so we don't necessarily need to delve into the depths of its murky undercurrent, but from time to time they get their way and smear their flawed ideology all over the plot of a TV show or film.

Sometimes, the cake isn't ruined and everyone wins, but more often than not, the "good intentions" by which these ideologies are presented actually achieve the complete opposite to their face-value goals.

Let me put it this way. If every single episode becomes the story of a woman overcoming the challenges of a multidimensional universe built for a man, rather than "the doctor" overcoming the challenges of the multidimensional universe, then the story becomes more about the ideology behind the original plot. Many people aren't interested in having this kind political message thrust at them, whether its because they don't agree or simply aren't interested is irrelevant; its inclusion will ruin the entertainment for them. What will inevitably compound this issue is if the critics dare to point out such an issue, they're branded as bigots and blacklisted from their industry... therefore there is a real chance this show will get very high scores in review sites, regardless of its actual entertainment value...

If the writers don't make a big deal about the switch of gender and continue on as normal, win-win.

[spacein_vader]

Unable to accept that what used to be an awesome show because it was different and stood apart from the crowd, is now bowing to public pressure and kow-towing.

Surely it remains to be seen if it still stands apart from the crowd, which in any case is far more reliant on the new showrunner (to use the BBCs parlance,) who decides the tone, commissions storylines and decides the general direction of the series than it does on the actor in the leading role.

Unless you're saying that Doctor Who stood out from the crowd for having white, male leads? Which doesn't seem particularly unusual or different to me.

Some people have a LOT going on in their lives and this is what they watch to unwind. So when this too crawls up its own backside, that catharsis is lost. That's why people get upset over this... It's like your favourite boozer deciding it has to become a lesbian-only fruit juice bar, for politically correct reasons...

Except there is no evidence that any of this has happened yet, if indeed it ever does. With your analogy its like your favourite boozers barman being replaced by a barmaid. It may potentially make a huge difference, it may potentially continue largely as it did with a different face.

I think that this is one case where a (largely unnecessary) shift in gender could actually kind of fit the canon of the show. Its a twist that could work, if its handled well.

Agreed.

The issue is that there is a very real chance that the people involved in the making of this show don't have the best interest of the fans at heart.

I'm sure the people involved have the same remit as every other light entertainment TV show: Maximise viewers. Usually this means appealing to the current viewers as much as possible and potentially widening that audience to those who wouldn't have previously watched it. Casting a female lead may well be able to do that.

I'm sure we're all aware of this modern PC attitude sweeping through social media and pop culture, so we don't necessarily need to delve into the depths of its murky undercurrent, but from time to time they get their way and smear their flawed ideology all over the plot of a TV show or film.

Murky undercurrent? Flawed ideology? It's not the illuminati! I'm really not sure what you mean by this.

Sometimes, the cake isn't ruined and everyone wins, but more often than not, the "good intentions" by which these ideologies are presented actually achieve the complete opposite to their face-value goals.

More often than not? Do you have a few examples?

Let me put it this way. If every single episode becomes the story of a woman overcoming the challenges of a multidimensional universe built for a man, rather than "the doctor" overcoming the challenges of the multidimensional universe, then the story becomes more about the ideology behind the original plot and the show is basically ruined.
If the writers don't make a big deal about the switch of gender and continue on as normal, win-win.

Once again, we agree.