Why is their no 'middle' or enthusiast Mac?

[Gunbuster]

Hi there,
this is not meant as a flame toward Apple, but rather a genuine question I'm hoping to pose the MacFans of Hexus.

Why do you think it is that apple aren't aiming for the middle ground on the desktop market?
The best way I can illustrate my point is a list (sorry):
Mac Mini = Laptop Chip, kind of my first Mac or micro-computer/HTPC.
iMac = Laptop Chip, Lifestyle computer competes with laptops for the compact home computer, but cool computer space.
Mac Pro = High End server chip, Workstation only hence no IR for front row.

None of them use a desktop chip like the e6300/e6400 Core 2 Duo. Is it that Apple is just happy to convert their previous PPC lineup to x86 as that is a big enough job in itself or that they want the middle ground to be free for the Macbook and Macbook Pro? Could it be that Apple intends a new product entirely aimed at blow Vista out of the water? or am I thinking to hard?

[Lowe]

Apple has never been about value or aimed at the middle ground, they're all high end machines for their range. You'll always get better value for money with a PC really, but you don't get iLife which I think is one of the best parts of a Mac.

[unrealrocks]

A top spec Intel MacMini is suprisingly powerful, the only let down is its graphics card But then mac aren't really aiming any of their computers at gamers.

@ Lowe - I think macs are becomming much better value for money, take the MacBook for example. It's a very well specced laptop and you can have a decent middle spec for under £1k!

[Gunbuster]

I didn't say I was a gamer, but I take the point. May I am just a little put out that the only machine that is close to the bill starts at £1500 and the most I ever paid for a computer was £1000, hell my car cost me £2000.

I would take issue that Mac are no longer expensive (as said in the wwdc keynote), I would say they are now on average equal value to Wintel PCs, but with the obvious benefits. To quantify what I mean, an entry level PC laptop is £350 where as an entry level Mac Laptop is £700, an entry level PC Desktop is £250 and entry level Mac is £400.

Now I know its like comparing BMW with Hyundai/etc. However it doesn't hide the fact that the prices haven't gone down, its the value that has gone up. Mac's are expensive, becuase that is their niche, paying a bit extra for some quality (of design).

Maybe I'm more wishing they would make one than wondering if they will...

[bsodmike]

Aye, couple years back Apple was offering fairly old tech. at their usual prices, but now the 'value' has gone up. Quite a few innovative features and pretty much everything isn't really 'struggling' behind the PCs in terms of 'cutting edge tech'. That said, the Mac Pro is a fair leap forward, which is a first for Apple and they have indeed made a 'gap' in the line and *hopefully* this is intentional. It would be nice if they brought the G4 Cube back , in the G5 style cheesegrater with Intel insides of course

[BlackDwarf]

My 2Ghz iMac is awesome, I'm loving it!
Using it for all the games I want to play, and they all look very pretty. The x1600 isn't the most beefy of GPU's but it seems to be handling what I throw at it well.

Plus its so much fun to see people with their mouths open just staring as I walk into a LAN party with an iMac

[Gunbuster]

Hehe awesome, I didn't realise the iMacs had proper graphics unlike the Macbook and MacMini. I'm tempted to hang on and see what the Core 2 + leopard iMacs turn out like. Also a fair point has been made that the quality problems have largely been in the laptop range, not the desktops. My one major gripe otherwise with the x86 Macs is they didn't try out more radical design changes to give them a definite visual difference from PPC to x86. Like the shifts from G3 Blueberry age to G4 Graphite age to G5 White + Cheesegrater age. However I like the subtle shift in style of the Macbook keyboard.

[bsodmike]

Well in all fairness the cheesegrater is a fairly sexeh design, and tbh looking at the layout of the Mac Pro compared to the first G5s (of which I have one here, a 1.6 Ghz) you'll be surprised how they have efficiently used the space. In my Dual 2.7, half the front is just...'empty' and it only can hold 2 HDDs heh. Of course, that's why I got a few external HDDs attached via USB/FW.

All in all, the Mac Pro design is he dogs you-know-what but the cost of one is simply OTT for your average user, and tbh...I don't even know what I'd do with one.

That said, RAID with 4 HDDs is extremely tempting, and you can never have too much power

[Gunbuster]

Oh no don't misunderstand me, I really like the new MacPro Design, infact where apple has pushed out something new (Mac Pro internals, MacBook keyboard and clip) they have on the whole been an improvement. I guess I would just like to see even more of what they could dream up.

[Spud1]

In reality - I think there *is* a middle/enthusiast mac - the macbook (none pro).

Granted its a laptop, and doesn't have 'proper' graphics, but its certainly not low end, its mid-priced and has amazing performance for the money.

OSX runs very nicely on it as you would expect, XP also does very well, and heck even the latest build of Vista works pretty much flawlessly on it (without right click on the trackpad still though)...even with full aero glass effects

The macbook will also handle the majority of games you throw at it - World of warcraft, almost any Q3 engine game, and with a bit of tweaking even Half life 2 runs on it (just about playable...although i wouldnt want to get to any 'busy' scenes heh). This is possible as in XP/Vista more ram gets assigned to the graphics than in OSX (where it is restricted to 64meg).

The CPU is the same as in the macbook pro..so copes very well with whatever you throw at it. So I would say that the macbook is really a middle range computer..you can quite easily plug in an external display/mouse/kb and just use it as a main machine - I did this for a month while my main computers graphics card went for 2 RMAs - worked great

[unrealrocks]

Yeah - I'm with Spud, I've had my MacBook for a while now and the only thing its really struggled with was Quake4, it ran like a bag of spanners. However it runs LFS (pretty much the only game I play) totally fine

I don't regret moving totally to mac at all Shame my VST plugins don't work anymore but I'm slowly learning Logic and will probably move to ProTools when I can afford a HD rack

[Lowe]

Yeah - I'm with Spud, I've had my MacBook for a while now and the only thing its really struggled with was Quake4, it ran like a bag of spanners. However it runs LFS (pretty much the only game I play) totally fine

I don't regret moving totally to mac at all Shame my VST plugins don't work anymore but I'm slowly learning Logic and will probably move to ProTools when I can afford a HD rack

Cubase 4 (universal binary) will be out Sept/Oct.

[Tak]

I'm anticipating a headless mid-range Mac with a single Conroe chip, perhaps in a smaller tower case.

Some discussion here