Traction.......the grip issue :)

[Zak33]

OK kiddies....Its time to put on make up, its time to light the lights, its time to face the music, on the Muppet show tonight....

Why did I start this one off like that?

Cos most peoples knowledge of grip in a car is derisory

(I'm hoping RocketmanX will help out here later....cos he has knowledgeof track racing (oval I believe) in the states and the grip issue is vital with the power the US dudes create )

I also would request you to all share this us your own experiences of "grip"

Here goes:

First thing......you're all gonna hate me for this.....

WIDER TYRES DON'T GIVE YOU MORE GRIP!!!!

sorry......its a fact......

the only scientific way to create more grip is EITHER increase the weight bering down on the tyre OR increase the frictional properties of the tyre....(ie better rubber) or BOTH.

So what I am saying is THIS: When you have 2 cars with identical power outputs (lets says its the same car) just having wider tyres on one car will NOT give it more grip that the other.

If both vehicles have the same compund of rubber, the same tread pattern (less repeated on the narrower one) and the same weight over the driven wheels....

both cars will accelerate from 0 to 60 in the same time.

Anyone suprised?

[[GSV]Trig]

Erm, I dont get the wider tyres dont give you more grip thing..

Surely if you have more surface area then your gonna have more grip than the guy running next to you with the same car same tyres/compound but 1/2 the size, half the size half the surface area less grip.....

[XTR]

Interesting... maybe these boy racers in Corsa's should read and understand that having wheels sticking out 2 inches from the wheel arch doesnt improve the grip

[Butuz]

Grip != traction



Butuz

[XTR]

ever seen the rally car's in the ice/snow? look at the width of the tyres

[Lowe]

I'm very suprised. If it doesn't give more grip, why do I need to be the Hulk when driving around with 195s on compared to my old 135 bike tyres?

Also, what about corner speed? Surely wider tyres = higher corner speed?

[Skii]

So if wider tyres don't give you more grip, why did F1 make them narrower a few years back?

[Barakka]

Not surprised at all. The wider tyres will give you more surface area in contact with the road, but the weight will then be distributed over a wider area, hence less lbs/inch of contact...



*added by Zak33 cos I didnt wanna interupt a post....EXACTLY Bac....exactly......if you stand on a small bit of hardboard, and get someone to drag you across the floor.....it will take ther same effort as if you are stood on a double width bit of hardboard*

[Butuz]

This is a superb post. Well done Zak

*sits back and watches the confusion

Butuz

[Zak33]

Right guys.......this is the score.

A. I promise you, width aint grip. The reason we need widertyres is TO DISTRIBUTE WEAR......ie narrower tyres wear out too quick.

Thats why you have to have wider tyres in the long run....

PLUS....as Lowe asks, about cornering, its easier to make LOW PROFILE tyres (ie low tyre walls, less flex) on wider tyres....

REALLY GOOD SOFT, COMPOUND RUBBER IS EXPENSIVE...but you could compete on it with AWESOME grip even if it was narrow as hell...it would destroy those 245/45 ZR P Zero's that Kev Boyo has on his Impreza....

they sadly however would not last long....

I promise you......go look it up....only increasing the co efficient of friction OR increasing weight will improve grip.

NOW......(and by all means cary on arguing it) the Grand Prix cars had their tyre width reduced for more complex reasons. Heat distribution and therefore wear and tear was getting too easy to manage.....AND they wanted more stops......so narrower tyres means more wear, more heat problems....

Lets be honest......if TRIG put the FRONT tyres of a Grand Prix car on his Cav GSI, which are probably narrower than his current tyres......

IT WOULD STICK LIKE CACK TO A BLANKET.....he'd die a happy man......as the arse end of his Cav passed him by under braking....cos his originals on the rear would be inferior

and yet these front tyres are NARROWER than his originals on the rear. They are simply better compound, with more weight.

SPACE SAVERS.....the horrid little thing in the boot, that you are supposed to use in a puncture event.......HOW NARROW is THAT?......poxy skinny thing...

However....drive on it......its amazing......the grip is awesome.

I have driven on 4 space savers on one car, all at the same time...its grip was incredible......but they last only 100km.

We'll move on soon.....

[XTR]

1 car with 4 space savers! i bet that looked funny

[Zak33]

Why do people put BIGGER wheels on?

You know.....other than looking good, why do it? And in fact..why is it trendy and why DOES it look so good....?

Why does a car with 17" wheels and 225/45 tyres corner better than on 195/60 R14's?

BECAUSE: we try to fit lower profile tyres to keep the gearing suitable to the car/ we therefore end up with rock hard tyre walls cos they are so small / we also therefore end up with vastly better quality tyres cos they were designed for a sports car anyway / they are inevitably made of a better compound for the same reason.....we have a better cornering car

And sadly a lot of this is by pure accident

AND A FURTHER REASON FOR BIGGER WHEELS.....THE REAL REASON....

[Zak33]

GO ON...GUESS.....why do competiton cars get designed around bigger wheels? Why is the wheel arch so big on an EvoVIII? And why is it so important, that even the gearing is designed to suit a car with mammoth wheels?

[TiG]

4 Wheel drive increases Traction

/cough cough

TiG

[Nick]

Cos bigger wheels means a bigger top speed.

Small wheels means better acceleration (Minis bugger off like rockets) but they soon top out at max speed. Stick a larger wheel on there and you get a higher top speed due to the distance traveled with one revolution of a larger circumference wheel.

/hopes like mad Zak meant wheel diameter and not width....

[Nick]

Originally posted by TiG
4 Wheel drive increases Traction

/cough cough

TiG

oh jeez..... SHUT UP!

Thought we'd laid this one to rest at the bbq?