Would you scrap your car?

[Saracen]

Yes, right. Their car manufacturing industry is massive, ours isn't. And as it happens, 90% of cars made here are exported, and (as I understand it) 90% of the cars we buy are imported. So basically 90% of the value of this scheme will go towards propping up foreign car manufacturers. Obviously a great use of British taxpayers money.

If I remember the figures quoted on the BBC correctly (and I haven't checked), 78% of cars made here are exported, and 86% of bought here are imported.

Of course, with the actual manufacture of the car itself being ony part of the picture, the other part being all the secondary jobs in parts suppliers. component manufacturers, and so on, it's a good deal more complicated than simple unit production of cars might imply.

However, I agree with you, in large part. Germany and France both have much more riding on car manufacture than we do, though it's still a big employer.


The critical question in all this is whether this proposed move is a sound treatment for the industry, or a short-term sticking plaster.

Right now, the industry has vast fields sitting full of unsold new cars. Bargains are already out there in dealerships for the asking for those with cash. But once those stocks have gone ...... ???


Our financial problems are NOT short-term. The car industry is going to have to accept that the economy has major problems, that banking has changed and cheap, easy credit is gone either for good or at least for a long time, that the "second income" effect of house price inflation has gone for even longer and that most people are looking to cut down on debt. All in all, there's been a seismic shift in consumer confidence and a degree of belt-tightening that means the car industry is going to have to live with changed times.

So while car manufacturers might want government help to shift those huge stockpiles, I'll bet that having done so, prices will rise, plants will get shut, workforces will get cut drastically and mercilessly and that commercial realities will drive that, regardless of what Government want .... or the political cost of unemployment.


This move IS, in my view, a sticking plaster, not a real treatment for our economic woes. It's designed to shift the cars the makers are stuck with, but even more, it's designed to shift the economic pain of that extra unemployment past the date of next election.

[rob4001]

Would I scrap my 11 year old 1.4 Honda civic? Hell yes. At least its some sort of short term gain I benefit car industry temporally benefits. Better that than throwing more money down black hole that is the banks! I mean the RBS had the cheek to ring me about my overdraft!!!

RIP Honda Civic a faithful work horse you have been. I am sure you'll make an excellent drinks can too

[Rave]

If I remember the figures quoted on the BBC correctly (and I haven't checked), 78% of cars made here are exported, and 86% of bought here are imported.

Of course, with the actual manufacture of the car itself being ony part of the picture, the other part being all the secondary jobs in parts suppliers. component manufacturers, and so on, it's a good deal more complicated than simple unit production of cars might imply.

Quite. I had somewhere to be this morning- my Mother-In-Law's MRI scan to be precise- so I posted knowing that a) my figures were an estimate and b) that the car industry in this country is as much about retail as about manufacture.

Anyway, years on the internet have taught me that a good ploy is to slam your point down and then wait for others to qualify it. The M-I-L's scan appears to prove that her heart problems were entirely due to a viral infection, and that she's never had a heart attack of any type.

The critical question in all this is whether this proposed move is a sound treatment for the industry, or a short-term sticking plaster.

Yes, and whether it's an efficient way of stimulating the industry. I can think of a better way: scrap VAT on new car purchases. Except we can't do that because of European laws.

We could just give the discount against cars built in this country. Except we can't, because that would be protectionism, and also against EU laws..

I used to love the idea of the EU. Now I'm wondering what part of the world outside of Europe would employ a qualified and competent bus controller because I really don't want to spend the next ten years of my life paying for all this stupidity.

So while car manufacturers might want government help to shift those huge stockpiles, I'll bet that having done so, prices will rise, plants will get shut, workforces will get cut drastically and mercilessly and that commercial realities will drive that, regardless of what Government want .... or the political cost of unemployment.

Almost certainly.

Saracen, as a smart chap, do you have a plan to get out of here? Or are you planning to ride it out? Genuine question.

[Gfinch]

Better idea, why doesn't Gordon Brown scrap his 4.2l V8 Daimler and buy a Tata Nano Car? Set us all a good example

[ToGGoT]

Better idea, why doesn't Gordon Brown scrap his 4.2l V8 Daimler and buy a Tata Nano Car? Set us all a good example

Because he has to make the most of being Prime Minister, while he still can...

T

[Vimeous]

I disagree with the scrappage as I reckon (having read what I have on the matter) it'll just lead to a bigger hole to dig ourselves out of.

In all honesty I disagree with automotive bailouts as well. There has to be something better surely!
These firms must be accountable for their miss-management.

As I've said elsewhere I still believe that the industry is a massive employer and has a huge psychological impact to the nation (most of us own cars and want the prices to keep going down and choice to improve not the opposite).

However the industry needs a huge kick in the butt that a scrappage scheme will not administer. Instead it's a false boost which will create unsustainable sales numbers, increase waste and use more resources.
Granted it'll maintain jobs for a short-term but when the scheme ends noone will be buying causing an even bigger slump that could badly damage and recovery occuring at the time by off-setting the job losses.
Maybe that's the plan? Job-loss-offset until new jobs are available in other industries to accomodate automotive workers and further undermine the industry.

Funnily enough it seems VW and Daimler sit on either side of the fence, not surprisingly for VW who have seen such a monsterous increase in sales as a result of the German scheme.


At the end of the day why the **** should I pay someone who can afford most of new car (as anyone using the proposed scheme must) to complete that purchase when I can barely scrape together enough cash to purchase an ancient one.
In fact there will be less choice for me as the cars I could have afforded and enjoyed, vanish!


Besides all that if the our road laws don't force me to emmigrate the EU probably will.

[GAteKeeper]

Dont forget that the UK scheme is slightly improved on the German/French ones

* Government is only stumping up £1k
* Car manufacturers must sign up and stump up the £1k (but whos to say they arent just going to remove some of the heavy discounts to balence it up)
* Only cars registered to the seller for at least 1year will be eligable (i.e. unlike the french/german schemes you can't buy a banger and get £2k off your new car for £100 outlay)
* VAT goes back up in December so those people who speculated on a banger when this was first mooted will probably miss out on the VAT saving (£400 on a 15k car)
* Limited to the first 300,000 people

Do agree that its a bit naive to think that people with 10yo cars can afford a brand new one from the get go!! It is also going to de-stablise the 2nd hand car market for at least a year while people wait, buy new rather than ex-lease etc.

GK

[Clingy]

LOL - Hell Yes....if I can get £2000 off the 25mpg Honda S2000 for my 11 year old 45 mpg Polo.

I do love these "green" policies

[MadduckUK]

im going to put my fingers in my ears, close my eyes - and hopefully by the time i stop this will have all passed

[lodore]

im hoping to take advantage of this deal once i get my first proper job.
current ford ka 2 1998 cost £2000.
so at least I get my money back on it and get a new car for cheap.

but when I win the some of that 66million euro millions tomorrow I will get a very good car (if only) lol

[AledJ]

I didn't think my car 9 years old but checked the docs and it is. But prices are still too high for me to even consider this £2000 pound offer. I mean with the offer i could add another £1200 but that would be the max. I think i'll stick with my current car for now.