Small car / Super mini suggestions

[Biscuit]

Im not convinced, especially with the 1 series. I drove a 120D M-Sport around quite a bit recently and it was fun yes, but more just because of the raw power (170odd bhp) than the actual car itself. Recently i have had a few goes in an Audi 2.0TDI and its a much nicer car to drive.

If its RWD in a car which is properly designed for it then yeah it will most likely win hands down against 99% of standard FWD cars.

[Tobeman]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. Keep it coming.

I've been trying to haggle with the dealer on a used 118d M Sport coupe that I test drove t'other week. Took great offence when I tried to play him off an slightly higher-specified private seller that was £4k less asking price (although 12,000mi vs 8,000 dealer car). Dealer isn't budging one bit (called me back today to confirm this) from the sticker price.

I reminded him that I was paying cash with no part exchange, but (and I guess this is probably true) being so economical they are very popular now, and used models are few and far between because of their relative 'newness'. Told him thanks and that we would leave it at that and I would look elsewhere.

I was planning to go to Germany at the end of the month, and rather than faff about with Ryanair, I suggested to my friends that we drove. Guess this would've been the ideal car, but I'm not prepared to be fleeced for it

[Biscuit]

i would highly recommend taking out a 2.0TDI Audi A3 if you enjoyed the 1 series. Also have a crack with the Octavia vRS Diesel

[gofes]

The Fiat 500 Abarth, but isn't there a fair wait for one? (ie over a year)

[Barakka]

I had a 2.0GT Golf for about a year (which is basically an A3 2.0TDI) and the drive bored me to tears.

After that I had a BMW 118d and the drive was very, very good.... yes the cabin was small and plasticy in comparison and it wasn't as fast as the Golf, but I would have the 1 series over the Golf any day.

Although of the ones you've listed I would pick the Abarth 500 hands down, i've had two fiats and done over 200,000 miles in them and they both were much more interesting and memorable than anything else i've owned be them german or japanese. The key to a Fiat is to look after it properly, so if you're used to classic minis then you'll be fine.

[Biscuit]

I thought the Audi would be basically the same as the Golf but it actually feels more refined.

[kalniel]

I thought the Audi would be basically the same as the Golf but it actually feels more refined.

It is quite a lot more refined. But it's also even more dull to drive!

[Biscuit]

I disagree completely!

Personally i found the 1 series to be a bit of a nightmare to drive. Gearbox is like changing railroad tracks, clutch is heavy and uncomfortable as where the seats and the driving position. First and second gears seemed to have a bit of a knack to them aswell, if you just tried to drive as second nature the power is a bit wobbly, you really have to be concentrating.

The Audi on the other hand has a lovely smooth clutch, smooth drive, nice driving position, great seats and the power is delivered in a decent curve (for a diesel). Admitadly it does understeer a touch but i cant imagine most people would notice that as driving at those speeds is wreckless

[kalniel]

The Audi on the other hand has a lovely smooth clutch, smooth drive, nice driving position, great seats and the power is delivered in a decent curve (for a diesel).

It has all of that, which makes for a relaxing motorway cruiser (which is why I bought mine). But it also has: No feel at all in the steering wheel - you know when you lose grip because the power cuts as TC kicks in, or you get a fairly sudden lurch in direction as the electronic 'diff' brakes a wheel. No feel in the brakes - spongy would be fairly accurate. Again, you only know you've approached the limit when the electronic aids kick in. The throttle response is also typical VAG turbo diesel - smooth is one word, but unresponsive is another, it's not a nice linear response to your foot, instead you move your foot and it smoothly catches up with you, which means that gear changing takes longer than it should otherwise and you don't have the fine control over the throttle that you do on more linear turbo-diesels.

So yes, it's very refined. But even my 10yr old Astra DTI had more driver feel and control, and in uncertain grip conditions I would actually prefer it to the Audi, as it behaves predictably rather than a computer interfering without advanced notice.

Admitadly it does understeer a touch but i cant imagine most people would notice that as driving at those speeds is wreckless

Oddly I only find it understeers under power - there's too much torque for the front wheels to do accelerating and turning at the same time On roundabouts the ESP actually seems to work really well, tucking the nose in very nicely without you feeling it do much. I had a shock when the courtesy golf understeered horribly on my first roundabout

So for my current driving and back condition, the Audi is perfect. It feels and behaves like a big car, and the driver is very detached from what's going on with the wheels, which makes for a very relaxing journey. But I'd be the first to agree it's very dull to drive. The power is the only thing that's grin-worthy.

[Biscuit]

It has all of that, which makes for a relaxing motorway cruiser (which is why I bought mine). But it also has: No feel at all in the steering wheel - you know when you lose grip because the power cuts as TC kicks in, or you get a fairly sudden lurch in direction as the electronic 'diff' brakes a wheel. No feel in the brakes - spongy would be fairly accurate. Again, you only know you've approached the limit when the electronic aids kick in. The throttle response is also typical VAG turbo diesel - smooth is one word, but unresponsive is another, it's not a nice linear response to your foot, instead you move your foot and it smoothly catches up with you, which means that gear changing takes longer than it should otherwise and you don't have the fine control over the throttle that you do on more linear turbo-diesels.

So yes, it's very refined. But even my 10yr old Astra DTI had more driver feel and control, and in uncertain grip conditions I would actually prefer it to the Audi, as it behaves predictably rather than a computer interfering without advanced notice.

Oddly I only find it understeers under power - there's too much torque for the front wheels to do accelerating and turning at the same time On roundabouts the ESP actually seems to work really well, tucking the nose in very nicely without you feeling it do much. I had a shock when the courtesy golf understeered horribly on my first roundabout

So for my current driving and back condition, the Audi is perfect. It feels and behaves like a big car, and the driver is very detached from what's going on with the wheels, which makes for a very relaxing journey. But I'd be the first to agree it's very dull to drive. The power is the only thing that's grin-worthy.

Thats actually the same way i noticed the understeer

I dont know if you drive many different cars ona regular basis but most of the things you have described seem to be things which are just common to pretty much all modern cars i have used int he past yr (unless they are specifically sporty models).

Il be driving the audi again this weekend so i will have to give it another analysis i think

[Barakka]

Personally i found the 1 series to be a bit of a nightmare to drive. Gearbox is like changing railroad tracks, clutch is heavy and uncomfortable as where the seats and the driving position. First and second gears seemed to have a bit of a knack to them aswell, if you just tried to drive as second nature the power is a bit wobbly, you really have to be concentrating.

That's pretty much what my wife described the 1 series as when she drove it - especially the driving position. But when her car was off the road for a week she drove the 1 series every day and after about 3 days her opinion totally changed. She loved it, to the point that she would like one, and she's a hard person to impress with a car - she likes very few.

I've said it before but the thing with the 1 series (well BMWs in general) is they really are about the driving experience. The correct wheels are doing the jobs they need to and it doesn't interfere with your driving, you really have to be in trouble before the ABS or ESP/Traction Control kicks in, unlike VAG cars which just "help you out" at the slightest thing.

It depends what you're after, if you need to do loads of motorway miles then a VAG is well worth considering, but if you don't need the miles and want to be totally involved in the driving the 1 series is a good car.

[kalniel]

Thats actually the same way i noticed the understeer

I dont know if you drive many different cars ona regular basis but most of the things you have described seem to be things which are just common to pretty much all modern cars i have used int he past yr (unless they are specifically sporty models).

Il be driving the audi again this weekend so i will have to give it another analysis i think

Yes I drive a fair number of different cars (or did until I changed jobs recently), but I've not found many to be that similar to the Audi to be honest. There's a huge variation, but while few match the Audi's feeling of solidarity (given by the nice weight of the steering, despite lack of feel, and complex suspension setup) many gave a much better impression of what the car was doing and even if the grip was lower they communicated it better. And they nearly all had better throttle response - French diesels were quite similar to the Audi, but Vaux and Ford diesels while less refined have a much sharper/more linear response.

I haven't driven a beemer though.

[Biscuit]

Actually thats a good point, i did drive a 2.2L (i think) TDi Mondeo recently, and i even preffered that to the 1 series. That had very good response all round!
Iv not driven a vauxhall in a while though.

[kalniel]

Ford's have also sorted their road feel out for quite a while now. Vaux aren't there yet, but are getting closer to the quality ride feel.

I just wish they'd sort their cabins out.

[Tobeman]

Right, I think I'm there. I've found an A3 2.0 S-Line TDI 170bhp (2008 "refresh", slightly better looking imo) with an independent (mainly prestige, Merc SLs and the like!, but has a small range of these) car garage, which I've got first refusal to on till Tuesday. Of course, last weekend the bloody Mini's starter motor (I think) went, so need to get that fixed, but also means getting round is a right pain.

I would quite like parking sensors, which this doesn't have fitted as standard. The chap can arrange for them to be fitted at £199 (and the same again if I wanted fronts done too). Knowing nothing about them (or ever needing them, the visibility out of the Mini is like driving a greenhouse ), is this competitive? They are Valeo branded (don't they make windscreen wipers?!), and I believe they are "audio only". Any good? Or get them done elsewhere? Or *gulp*, go back to Audi to get them retrofitted?

I was ideally after the Xenon headlights, after seeing how effective my old man's were. These come with the ridiculous LED daytime running lights (which are actually growing on me, with time. Plus they look a bit festive in time for the season ). They can also source these independently, at a cost of £350 fitted. This strikes me as awfully cheap, as Audi charge £555 (inc. VAT, RRP) for the privilege of getting them fitted when buying the car new! Isn't it law that Xenons should be fitted with headlight washers now? I guess I should ask how his compare to Audi originals, which also have automatic headlight adjustment and dynamic range control, whatever the hell they are.