Airbag concerns

[roachcoach]

Serious thread, no puns about women and airbags damnit!

Right, we have a serious concern/unanswered questions around airbag safety.

We were kicking around looking for smaller cars yesterday, tried some of the new model fiestas. My wife commented idly on how close she had to be to the steering wheel - she's very short indeed so to reach the pedals/see properly its almost as far forward as it goes (if not as far forward) and she had to jack the height up too.

Anyway I looked and noticed how close her chest was to the wheel and wondered about the airbag deploying...we're not sure if she is too close, those things basically explode. We had a look online and asked a few folks but the internet is a mire of baseless opinions, unsupported "facts" and there's even a strange lack of guidance we could find from official websites. I'm reluctant to ask the dealer because a) I don't trust him, b) I'd be surprised if he knew and c) I don't trust him oh and d) it's farking high stakes to not completely trust someone/have them make a mistake.

We reckon she's about 6" away from the wheel to her sternum, other parts obviously closer, but its the ribcage getting mushed that would kill.

I've spoke to a mechanic I trust and he says you probably want to be further away, but I'm hoping to validate it with something official - it's not that I don't trust him, just that we talked over the phone and it was a best guess/mates opinion.

We liked the car, but if she's in danger driving it, then it's out the window.

So...if anyone here knows/has had experience I'd appreciate feedback so we can rule it in/out one way or the other. As I said, there's lots of opinions out there so if you actually *know* if you could say where from that would be wicked.

Thanks folks


Edit: As a further update I've found a bunch of US/Canadian gvmnt sites which state 10" away from the sternum, but anything here would still be appreciated.

[kalniel]

I'm not an expert, but I'd have thought that airbags are probably mandated to inflate so quickly that you could be very close indeed (3 inches or so) before they wouldn't have inflated enough by the time you collide with them. 10" is a good safety margin to have in case, but the ribcage is there for a reason and as long as your head is far enough away then it should provide good protection to prevent head injuries.

[roachcoach]

My worry is not about it not inflating in time, its the damage an inflating airbag may do to internal organs without adequate clearance. They are very powerful to inflate as fast as they do.

[kalniel]

Again I think the ribcage should more than prevent that being a risk.

However you shouldn't be choosing a car where you have to have the steering wheel 6" from your chest - ergonomically that's poor. There will be better cars for people with short legs, including ones with adjustable steering wheels.

[roachcoach]

You'd think!

/is sick of car buying already.

[Gerrard]

OK, this isn't really what you want as it's just my opinion and not necessarily fact, but I'll throw it in anyway.

Firstly, I would imagine that the manufacturer wouldn't allow the seat to be dangerous if driven fully forward for fear of suing. There will no doubt be bruising of some sort in the event of a crash, but I guess you could call that "acceptable" compared to the alternative.

Secondly, this is probably a myth, but I've heard the airbags in America explode with more force than in Europe as it's not necessary to wear a seat belt, and so therefore must counter-act a larger force. This would lead to a larger minimum safe distance. I believe it's also led to rumours of you actually getting more injured from the airbag when you do wear a seatbelt!

Alternatively, you'll just have to look for cars with a more customisable steering wheel length/pedal adjustment, but I'd imagine it's going to be close in most cars? That or put blocks on the pedals ala Short Round in Indiana Jones!

[roachcoach]

It varies from car to car. The fiestas we were looking at would probably be fine if she didn't jack the seat up for example.

I suspect in legal terms they only need to worry about the "average" driver and over and above that they could do special things, e.g. turning it off if it was deemed higher risk at the behest of a customer. They can't reasonably be expected to consider every possible body shape I wouldn't think.

Plus, since arguably she could not jack the seat up and recline the seat and have a decent distance apart...it's technically user choice. Of course that means she has a hard time getting what she deems suitable visibility....could she drive it like that? Likely, is she happy? Hell no. So part of it is a choice/practicality thing on our part. Awkward buggers I know

Yeah, we're kind of at the point now of sitting in just about every car in the lots but the thought of that is a nightmare >.<

Most have adjustable columns these days, however our experience has been they're typically pushed as far away as possible by default. Not seen any yet with adjustable pedal heights and anything like that would need to be adjustable rather than permanent since I'll drive it too and..well...if its a permanent thing I'd end up like this:





What a pain




Edit: Finally, a UK link - http://www.childcarseats.org.uk/choosing/airbags.htm

Though not as official as I'd like, its the closest I've found so far.

[rox0r]

Why not just fit a set of pedal extenders?

[roachcoach]

Mainly because it would mean I'd need the seat so far back the kids wouldn't fit in the back

Unless they're removable I guess.

(She doesn't want to have a car where only she can drive it)

[kalniel]

Give her a cushion! (I'm presuming the only reason she can't tilt the seat back is that her head is then too low?)

If it's a question of comfort driving with the seat reclined then look for cars with a more upright driving position - mini MPVs, focuses, picasso etc. Look for cars without anti-submarining seats (they are likely to have too long seats for short thighs).

[roachcoach]

Indeed - not sure if that would life the feet too high from pedals, plus the suggestion of a booster seat might result in a bit of a kick in the balls

Well, basically its part of a larger debate - she doesn't want a bigger car (than fiesta size) if possible. We already have a rav4, which is pretty chunky and I think she's ok in that airbag wise and she can drive it no bother...buuuut its bigger than her preference. Its part of a second car debate and we could leave her the rav and I take the other car but her preference is a smaller car so I'm trying to see if we can possibly manage it. Plus her having the rav causes issues elsewhere, though those aren't potentially life threatening!



Edit: Yes, I know I'm(we're) being awkward about car choice etc...long, loooong story! Lots of specific requirements, boot space for buggies, rear space for kids legs behind me driving, don't want to be tied to one driver so it needs to work for both of us, that sort of jazz

[MaddAussie]

OK Air bags over here are SRS (secondary restraint system) and Airbags in the US are PRS (primary restraint system) so I'd discount the 10 inches from the states. Air bags here are designed to work with the seatbelt that's why the seatbelt has a pyrotechnic pre-tensioner that's designed to pull you back into the seat as the airbag fires. They are designed to inflate and deflate within a fraction of a second and cushion the impact. TBH I'd rather be sat too close than not have one.

[Barakka]

I'd say if you're worried about it then keep looking and find something she can be comfortable in without sitting too close.. my mum is just under 5 foot tall and has no problems with seating position in her Merc C180 Coupe - just need her to keep playing goldilocks...

[roachcoach]

Damned thing is though, I found a link (above) fro the UK with the same advice, endorsed by various road safety folks.

I know a lot of their chatter can be...shall we say a tad alarmist...but unsurprisingly enough its different when you're talking about your own Mrs in the proverbial (literal ) firing line!

I know what you mean about better to have it than not though, but I reckon the best option is one with enough distance even if that means she can't get the wee car she wants

Tricky decision and a disturbing lack of data.

[TheAnimus]

Nuts to the airbag, it mustn't be comfortable to drive a car like that!

[roachcoach]

Well I imagine she's used to it/not known any other way. After all, any further back and she cant reach the pedals soooo...y'know